Railroad Forums 

  • Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #1453173  by thebigham
 
I got to the park at about 2:50pm. I had missed the first train.

My buddy told me there were about 25 people in attendance at the Upper Falls.

People were also at Inspiration Point. He said pics were better at Inspiration Point.

I took pics of the 2nd train over the bridge at the Upper Falls overlook. That was around 3:44pm. Good pics were hard because the old trestle is in front of the new bridge.

I tried to hang around for the 3rd train. It was stopped at Dentons Corners Road when I left the park at 4:35pm.
Attachments:
2nd train on the new bridge
2nd train on the new bridge
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2nd train on new bridge
2nd train on new bridge
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Upper Falls overlook after the 1st train. PRR Rochester Branch grade on the left.
Upper Falls overlook after the 1st train. PRR Rochester Branch grade on the left.
100_0173.JPG (1.32 MiB) Viewed 2218 times
 #1453192  by J.D. Lang
 
It is great to see something good happening in NYS in regards to freight operations and hopefully this will bring more traffic on the Southern Tier in future. Thanks Chris and to others who posted updates and pictures throughout the whole construction process. Its been fascinating to watch the whole build out. It may take more time than is necessary in this bureaucratic world but is nice to see when a public/private partnership actually works.

J. Lang
 #1453197  by Scott K
 
jurtz wrote:Does anyone on this board know if the removal plan for the old bridge calls for the removal of the abutments in the river that support the old bridge?
I was wondering that myself. I was hoping not, and that they'd leave the footbridge across them. Unfortunately, I think they are coming out, after reading this quote in the story linked above; “It also complements the beauty of Letchworth State Park and helps to restore the river to its natural state for the first time in nearly 150 years".

Scott K.
 #1453201  by 452 Card
 
Final rendering image from M & M shows a clean riverbed with no abutments. I'm concerned about potential further erosion of the Upper Falls after the demo. But then again, the engineers on this project seem to have covered everything very well. Next up: old bridge demo, and re-alignment of the South Entrance access road. Please keep us in the visual loop, John Kucko!
 #1453214  by scottychaos
 
452 Card wrote:Final rendering image from M & M shows a clean riverbed with no abutments. I'm concerned about potential further erosion of the Upper Falls after the demo. But then again, the engineers on this project seem to have covered everything very well. Next up: old bridge demo, and re-alignment of the South Entrance access road. Please keep us in the visual loop, John Kucko!
Why would removal of the abutments have any impact on the upper falls?

Scot
 #1453219  by Matt Langworthy
 
Good question, Scot. The Upper Falls are being eroded by the force of the water going over it. The concrete piers will eventually be eroded or undermined by erosion. Keeping them in place won't stop the erosion. As much as I would have loved to see the old bridge kept as a foot bridge, the piers will eventually be compromised. It's better IMO to remove them now than to wait for them to collapse.

One of the advantages of the new bridge design is not having any piers in the riverbed. Thus a flood like 1972 or even the ravages of erosion over time won't undermine the arch.
 #1453223  by scottychaos
 
Thanks Matt,
I agree with you..but I was curious about 542card's comment:
I'm concerned about potential further erosion of the Upper Falls after the demo.
The removal of the piers of the old trestle would have zero impact on erosion of the upper falls..the falls erode the same whether they are there or not..so I was just curious what he was thinking about there..

Scot
 #1453235  by sd80mac
 
scottychaos wrote:Thanks Matt,
I agree with you..but I was curious about 542card's comment:
I'm concerned about potential further erosion of the Upper Falls after the demo.
The removal of the piers of the old trestle would have zero impact on erosion of the upper falls..the falls erode the same whether they are there or not..so I was just curious what he was thinking about there..

Scot
Me too. Also State park could take advantage of these piers. They can put pedestrian bridge (or foot bridge in stones, like many stone bridges in all over state parks in NYS) so they can have 2 paths connected on both sides of river... And trespassers WOULD HAVE ZERO excuse of why they need to walk on new bridge to get to another side of river..
 #1453263  by Noel Weaver
 
NYS could fix up the old bridge for a walkway like Poughkeepsie. While it might not equal Poughkeepsie for use it could be a very useful attraction. I guess the leaders of NYS figure one old railroad bridge is enough in this case. I worked that line exactly once with pilots due to a derailment on South Byron Hill. It was quite an experience.
Noel Weaver
 #1453328  by thebigham
 
https://www.facebook.com/JohnKuckoDigit ... 7685249111" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John Kucko writes:

What's Next?: Have heard from many of you regarding the historical events of Monday at Letchworth SP and the first ever train passing over the new arch, marking the end of the 1875 trestle. I will try and answer some of the questions I've received here:

--Why so slow? For a while at least, trains will cross the arch at 10 MPH , like they had been with the old. They'll be increasing those speeds to 25 at some point soon but, for now, will take it slow for precautionary reasons.
--What happens to the trestle? It will soon be brought down, piece by piece. Cranes are in place to do the removal of the iron. Should be all removed by February, including the concrete base (anchored to the riverbed since the days of the wooden bridge).
--Why no walkway? Simply put, it's a liability nobody wants to deal with. Not Norfolk Southern, nor New York State Parks. It's just not feasible to keep it standing.
--Will arch be painted? From what I understand, yes. The gray rivet plates, as well as the railing will be painted in the spring to match the steel for one, conformed look.
--How many trains cross in a day? Generally, in a 24 hour day, 4-7 trains pass through. Some days more, some less. Expect Norfolk Southern traffic to increase heading into 2018 for a variety of reasons.
--Where does the old iron go? The iron from the 1875 High Bridge has great value. It will be repurposed and used for other projects. A very small portion will go to the park for historical purposes.
--What was reaction of the crew? Conductors and engineers on the first trains coming through on Monday were fully aware of the historical significance. One conductor told me "It was satisfying, exciting and breathtaking--I was speechless."
--Why no grand ceremony? This was very quietly done by design--a "soft launch." There will be a formal ribbon cutting type of ceremony in the spring with politicians and VIP's.

I hope this "fills in the blanks" a bit. I have to admit, am a bit overwhelmed by the reaction I received all week from so many of you out there. Have enjoyed capturing various content of "Old Shaky" for years. I'll keep documenting the project and will continue my weekly Sunday morning "Honoring an Icon" series until the last structure of the old trestle has been removed. Thank you for all the support!
 #1453348  by RichM
 
Great point... there really hasn't been much ornamental "wrought" iron made in a very long time. The demand is very small, and it's simply not worth the investment for the integrated steel guys to produce it in any quantity that they can sell quickly.

Speaking to the blacksmiths at many of the historical sites, if they truly work in iron, all of it comes from demolition and scrapping activity.

So hopefully, most of the bridge will find its way into ornamental hardware and historical restoration.

It may not be the answer that many would like, but it's better than "razor blades" or rebar.
 #1453423  by lvrr325
 
It wouldn't surprise me if cost to maintain is another factor in not keeping it. Look at what happened further south with the bridge at Kinuza. I remember reading comments that parts of the piers on that one were in terrible shape before it came down. If this one blew the wrong way it could clip and damage the new bridge; they'd have to keep it painted and so forth so it couldn't rot away to nothing.
 #1453443  by s4ny
 
Re bridge abutments, the Shawmut bridge across Stony Brook in Dansville was removed in
1947 and the concrete abutments were still there last time I looked.

There may also be traces of the abutments from the original bridge that was removed over
100 years ago.
Attachments:
2 Shawmut.jpg
2 Shawmut.jpg (44.9 KiB) Viewed 1579 times
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