Uplifting Rochester News?

[lvrr325]

I kind of gave up on this thread when one of the posters in it sent me a PM saying in part

If my opposing arguement is frightening enough to generate a backlash, I'm pretty sure I'm on the right side of the issue.

By this logic you as an adult will still stick your hand on a hot stove burner when someone screams at you not to touch it, and I'm not sure I want to try to ignore my common sense enough to get down on that level and argue about it.

I think tenthousandhobbies pretty well sums things up - for the Rochester area specifically, between the slow economy, the high taxes, and all the other costs associated with doing business there, there is not likely to be any "uplifting" news in the immediate future. Obviously there could be exceptions to the rule, but it's not likely.

[drewh]

NY State could do a lot to improve the upstate economy. Imagine what high-speed rail from Toronto to Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, and NYC would do to help spur the economy. Its not like the ROW never existed and there already is decent service ALB-NYC. Even just upgrading to 90-110mph service from ALB-BUF with multiple frequencies would be something.

[MP366]

Would somebody puleeeeeeeeeeze enlighten me as to how high speed passenger service in New York State is going to improve the economy???? And don't start with "construction jobs".....they can't even fund what's in operation on Amtrak now.....and I have little need to go to New York City in 5 hours instead of 8. I might go to Toronto once in a while, but thanks to the customs requirements I can still beat the train in my car just on virtue of only needing to wait for three people to prove their citizenship vs everybody on the train(God help you if more than a couple passengers have no proper documentation...)and if I go to Toronto, I'm not helping the New York economy as much as that of Ontario......


Otto, does this want to be in a new topic?

[Otto Vondrak]

Yeah, I thought we were talking about freight customers in Rochester...

I think we had a high-speed rail thread going before. Like I said before, no one is building a bullet train system from Brooklyn to Buffalo (where do we keep getting that from?) - It's a series of projects to add capacity and flexibility to CSX routes that Amtrak may operate over. Second and third tracks, rebuilt interlockings, etc. will help raise the average speed of trains across NYS. But are we having a conversation specific to Rochester??

[drewh]

The idea is to promote flexibility in movement around the state from Rochester. Ease of transportation is important to any company loooking for new locations. Imagine a company wanting to save money on office space being able to locate upstate but still have easy business access to the state capital as well as the financial markets in both Toronto and NYC (the 2 largest in North America). I'm not talking about commuter access, but easy access for meetings whereby you could leave in the morning and return at night. And I wasn't necessarily talking only about high-speed rail but improvements as well so that speeds could be increased to 90-110. Look at what the NEC does for PHL and Wilmington with their easy access to both NYC and DC. Its ease of business travel (not leisure) that drives a company's interest in locating in different areas.

Though I doubt better transportation alone will help improve Rochester's economy. In fact they couldn't even get the ferry to Toronto into service. But you have to start somewhere.

[Flat-Wheeler]

you have to start somewhere.

You also have to end somewhere.

[Otto Vondrak]

You can't invent freight customers out of thin air... but you can move that freight (and passengers) faster with better capacity.

[MP366]

Would the money be better spent on attempting to locate an intermodal facility in Rochester? There was long ago a consortium that wanted to put an intermodal facility adjacent to Genesee Junction...but I believe that Conrail shut them off by not having any of their trains stop there. Kodak, B&L, Xerox...they all had to pay drayage charges to haul trailers to Syracuse or Buffalo to get them on intermodal trains. I recently tracked a UPS package that was going to Idaho from Rochester..by way of East Syracuse. So I got to wave at it as it went by the house...east to go west...not seeing the fuel savings there. Folks, bad news...Rochester doesn't manufacture "stuff" any more....certainly not things that need to move in box cars or hoppers. Most of what we make here would move readily by truck/trailer. The daily production of many companies in Rochester is worth tens of thousands of dollars, but could fit in a 28 foot pup trailer....IMHO high speed rail is not likely to bring back manufacturing to New York State. I'm currently in the process of installing a light fixture(made in China)into my kitchen, which uses three 20 watt bulbs(made in China) and I needed to buy some 10-32 screws(made in China)which I installed with my ratchet drive(made in China)as I type on a keyboard(made in China)connected to a computer(made in Malaysia)....my point is the infrastructure is in place to serve the manufacturing community now. You may not like it but the Thruway/I86/I81/I88 is more than adequate, particularly in combination with the Rochester airport(FedEx)....most of what is transported by rail is either bulk commodity or TOFC/COFC or a hybrid of the two(Q090)...yes there are mixed freight trains, but they are outnumbered by the stack/van trains by a large margin. While I am not adverse to a logical, thoughtful use of tax dollars to improve rail infrastructure, the plan in place as proposed will not bring back large scale manufacturing to the area, but merely serve to get Amtrak off of CSX.

They could probably improve CSX's fluidity in winter with a couple million dollar investment(14million yuan in China...)in really good switch heaters......then refund the balance of the cash back to the taxpayers and THEN cut the onerous cost of running a business in this state....

[scharnhorst]

I thought Rochester had that Road Railer facility at one time??

[PassRailSavesFuel]

"Fine...I disagree. Seems like almost everyone who's been governing for the past few decades disagrees, too.

What we need is a national concensus on our priorities as a nation. Are cheap sneakers and electronics more important than American jobs?

I disagree Semper: we need to let industry operate without the choking effects of regulation and taxation. I run a small software company in Calif and we still have one employee in NYS and the amount of paperwork i have to fill out for that one employee is ridiculous. Our company has decided that all further growth will be offshore because of the regulatory requirements in CA and NY. I think if our elected officials would have to have made payroll for a business before they ran for public office we would probably see a business-friendlier environment. Sadly, most of our elected officials have no business experience and, worse yet, they're lawyers!

On a BRIGHTER NOTE: Here in Northern California we are witnessing the rebirth of a formerly abandoned railroad: Norh Coast Railroad serving Marin, Sonoma, Napa and Mendocino counties. They are installing new bridges, signals and ties. It's a mammoth undertaking to re-establish freight service - but wait (!) the environmental wackos chased industry out years ago - so there won't be too many customers! Oh, well it's good to see a former Southern Pacific Line back in action! Cheers to everyone back home in Rochester!

Maybe it was the higher costs of trucking or fuel for the trucks, that also wreck the environment? Many businesses go out of business when they lose their rail service.

[PassRailSavesFuel]

NY State could do a lot to improve the upstate economy. Imagine what high-speed rail from Toronto to Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, and NYC would do to help spur the economy. Its not like the ROW never existed and there already is decent service ALB-NYC. Even just upgrading to 90-110mph service from ALB-BUF with multiple frequencies would be something.

As a rail customer, I'd be happy with more trains, and higher speed rail.

[PassRailSavesFuel]

NY State could do a lot to improve the upstate economy. Imagine what high-speed rail from Toronto to Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, and NYC would do to help spur the economy. Its not like the ROW never existed and there already is decent service ALB-NYC. Even just upgrading to 90-110mph service from ALB-BUF with multiple frequencies would be something.

What about the wild west? You know Rochester to Cleveland-Chicago? I'd like to see how many people are turned away from always late 48 or never on time 49! The nighty business report just recently reported a new wave of airline bankruptcys coming. What a industry. Also if you liked $3 gas you'll love $6. I agree with you, just don't forget about us westenders

[goodnightjohnwayne]

I'd like to see how many people are turned away from always late 48 or never on time 49!

Amtrak train status history - Check on time performance and Amtrak delays
Status for train 48 arriving into ROC

2009-07-25: Scheduled: 9:50 am Actual: 9:41 am Delay: 2 minutes

2009-07-24: Scheduled: 9:50 am Actual: 9:52 am Delay: 9 minutes

I'd say that the on-time performance has become a selling point for the Lake Shore Limited, which is precisely why this train is so frequently sold out.

[MP366]

Let's get this back to freight ladies and gentlemen...OVD has been patient with our wanderings into passenger, but the thread originated in freight....

[scharnhorst]

was the Road Railer facility in Rochester a sucess or a failurer when it was still being run by Conrail??