Unfinished Railroads of New York State

[RussNelson]

Well! A new unfinished railroad! And I thought I had pretty much all of them. May I publish your photo on my web page?

[Mr.S]

Here's a thought I had ,have you thought about publishing a book on this topic ?

[RussNelson]

I've thought about it, and it's been suggested. It would indeed be fun. On the other hand, all ten of us reading this thread have probably visited http://russnelson.com/unfinished-railroads.html and soaked up the information there. About the only thing I could add in a book are more pictures and maps that you can't zoom in on. On the other other hand (I'm an economist), I could tell my wife "It's research for the book" and use that as an excuse to go wandering around the hinterlands of New York State.

[Lehighton_Man]

Alcochaser, From where to where was that line proposed to run? I'm interested in trying to follow it on Google earth, but cannot locate the station you speak of.

[scharnhorst]

I don't know if this counts but the Owasco River Railroad in Auburn, NY built and ran from State Street by the prison ended up as a Stub Yard on what is now Mill Street it was proposed to run past Mill Street and follow along Osborne Street (formerley known as Machanic St.) to Emerson Park at the North end of Owasco Lake the line was never graded becouse the Auburn Trolly System already went to the park. The line was survyed insted for a sewer line when the city started to exspand.

[RussNelson]

Yeah, many railroads were proposed ... I'm limiting myself to the ones which were actually begin but unfinished. There should be something on the ground that people can go look at.

[Alcochaser]

It was an extension of the NYS&W Ontrack service in Syracuse NY from Carousel Mall eastward that would add three new stops. One at the Amtrak station in Syracuse, One at the baseball park, and one at the farmers market. The grading and all the station platforms were 100% completed. No rails were ever laid. There was a snafu in driving the pilings for the bridge over a street where the bridge is adjacent to the (at the time Conrail, now CSX) mainline. The old NYC area bridge started to settle and Conrail made them stop construction.

[scharnhorst]

It was an extension of the NYS&W Ontrack service in Syracuse NY from Carousel Mall eastward that would add three new stops. One at the Amtrak station in Syracuse, One at the baseball park, and one at the farmers market. The grading and all the station platforms were 100% completed. No rails were ever laid. There was a snafu in driving the pilings for the bridge over a street where the bridge is adjacent to the (at the time Conrail, now CSX) mainline. The old NYC area bridge started to settle and Conrail made them stop construction.

not to stur up a bees nest but I beleve that this was covered in anouther a couple of outher topics.

[Lehighton_Man]

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5c8ct ... vl=2&sty=b

I'm going to guess that was the bridge that stopped all construction?
It appears to me that this was a very small venture... Less than a Mile in length... Doesn't appear that it would've made any money in the long run.
Back on topic now. Please excuse me for my slight off topicness.

[neroden]

As a person who does a fair amount of historical industrial research (I clean up hazardous waste sites for a living) allow me to suggest a newly available research tool.

Most counties now have their property tax maps in electronic form, often available on line. Many uncompleted RRs (and even a few "paper" ones that never built anything) will leave historic evidence behind, in the form of funny looking, long parcels of land that curve around a bit. Many times, the property was acquired, the RR went bust, but the property lines remained in the funny shapes they'd been carved into.

I've run across several mystery ROWs this way, some of them in the middle of nowhere.

Some of them are former roads, of course. Or occasionally former rivers! Look at the property tax maps of Manhattan and you can figure out where the rivers and roads were before the street grid went in.

[neroden]

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5c8ct ... vl=2&sty=b

I'm going to guess that was the bridge that stopped all construction?

Yes, that's the one.

It appears to me that this was a very small venture... Less than a Mile in length... Doesn't appear that it would've made any money in the long run.

Passenger transportation hasn't really "made any money" since the 1920s, except for WWII, and it's even questionable whether it ever paid for its infrastructure *before* that. OnTrack would have been a useful public transportation / economic development resource, but without the bridge, it simply wasn't good for much.

[neroden]

Well! A new unfinished railroad! And I thought I had pretty much all of them. May I publish your photo on my web page?

I've walked the whole length of the unused section (staying on public roads). Do it the next time you stop at the Syracuse Amtrak station, it's kind of interesting (if a little disturbing) -- there are lovely modern platforms with weeds growing through them.

[goodnightjohnwayne]

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r5c8ct ... vl=2&sty=b

I'm going to guess that was the bridge that stopped all construction?

Yes, that's the one.

It appears to me that this was a very small venture... Less than a Mile in length... Doesn't appear that it would've made any money in the long run.

Passenger transportation hasn't really "made any money" since the 1920s, except for WWII, and it's even questionable whether it ever paid for its infrastructure *before* that.

I've often wondered about the economics of passenger rail at the turn of the 20th century. Did the railroads ever turn a profit on commuter service? All I can say for sure is that the railroads had many sources of revenue supporting passenger rail. I do think that the railroads were looking forward to a level of economic and population growth that never occurred from 1920 onward.

OnTrack would have been a useful public transportation / economic development resource, but without the bridge, it simply wasn't good for much.

Assuming for a moment that OnTrack had ever been completed as originally envisioned, the system would still have faced an uphill battle. In hindsight, the "Regional Market" wouldn't have drawn much patronage even if the Park Street bridge project had been completed. Ultimately, there is some merit to the idea of connecting the Amtrak station with points south, but realistically, the odds of daily passenger service between Syracuse and Binghamton over the NYS&W are very remote these days.

[dj_paige]

Unambiguous remains of Rochester, Nunda and Pennsylvania Railroad grading found on Bowen Road in Chili, NY. Photos on Flickr, also linked on Russ's site.

[FarmallBob]

Unambiguous remains of Rochester, Nunda and Pennsylvania Railroad grading found on Bowen Road in Chili, NY. Photos on Flickr, also linked on Russ's site.

Even more unambigiuous evidence (several hundred yards of substantial grading) exists deep in the interior of Black Creek Park. The grading skirts a swamp about 1/2 mile northwest of the intersection of Union St and Morgan Rd.

A photo of the grading is here:
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79 ... G_3617.jpg

Also here:
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79 ... G_3620.jpg

(Photos taken while snowshoeing in the park recently)

----

RN&P grading can also be observed where the RR would have crossed Stottle Rd about 0.4 miles south of the Black Creek bridge. Also traces of grading still exist in the fields south of the creek between Stottle and Scottsville-Chili Rds.

Not surprisingly all these bits of grading lie on nearly straight line running diagonally across southwest Chili.

...FB