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  • (Rochester) How about a Yates Dock hike this Sunday?

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #1428617  by BR&P
 
A while back on the CSX Charlotte Runner thread, we had a lot of discussion about the old Yates Dock and what traces might remain of it. CPSmith walked around the area and took a few pics but brush obscured a lot.

Things are greening up fast and if we want to see the area with no foliage time is limited. This coming Sunday is supposed to be sunny and about 60. Anybody interested in checking it out? Best bet would be to park at the foot of Boxart St where Charlotte Docks used to be, then walk down the hiking/bike path to where Yates Dock used to be. I'd suggest boots rather than sneakers, probably will be somewhat muddy in spots.

Anybody interested? What time? 1PM? I'm flexible.
 #1428673  by CPSmith
 
I won't be back until May, otherwise I would join you. Have fun. Watch your step. Take lots of photos.

If First Belt comes up the grade, wave, watch and stay off. I'm not bailing you out of jail.
Last edited by CPSmith on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1428685  by BR&P
 
CPSmith wrote:I won't be back until May, otherwise I would join you. Have fun. Watch your step. Take lot of photos.

If First Belt comes up the grade, wave, watch and stay off. I'm not bailing you out of jail.
A late snowbird, aren't you! Snow has been gone here for probably 2 weeks.

Not much coming up from Charlotte except memories. And in today's world somebody hopping a freight would probably be grilled by a half dozen different law enforcement agencies. Don't worry, it will be an orderly and responsible outing. Image

I just wish I had been smart enough to check this out way back when, probably a lot of traces have vanished over the years.
 #1428839  by BR&P
 
I have a fourth person coming, set up off-forum.

Help a tech-challenged guy out. Second-last post on the bottom of the "CSX Charlotte Runner" thread, CPSmith posted an old topo map. I can open it, and my computer tool lets me enlarge it by 300% and it shows the trackage where we'll be hiking and shows the tracks all the way to Charlotte. How can I get a screen grab, or maybe just print off the enlarged part? Printing the whole map would be useless because the part we want is so small.

I'm also bringing a print-off of the mileage chart I posted near the bottom of page 48 of that same thread. Might throw my copy of the "Coal To Canada" book in too.

Kevin, I'll either be in a gray F-150, or a bright blue Escape, depends on what the wife will be doing while I'm at the docks. C2629, as info Tom is the other guy joining us, between his knowledge and the maps I expect we'll learn a lot.
 #1428866  by BR&P
 
CPSmith wrote:This what you want? It gets a little pixelated after that.
That's what I want to have, I'd like to be able to print it off on a full-size sheet of paper. The magnification tool on 300x makes it very nice, I realize it's relative but I can enlarge it to 7" by 9 1/2 " on my screen, very good detail. But Control P does not print it, nothing happens.

I think tomorrow will answer a question I have had for many years. I had heard of "Double Track Junction" many years ago, in an old train order from about 1890. But never knew where it was. I now believe it was where the north leg of the wye at Yates Dock joined the Charlotte main, and where the other track from the South Yard also joined up. I am bringing one of those measuring wheels which might be a help.
 #1428949  by BR&P
 
A fine day for a walk and the 6 of us had a very enjoyable time. Answered some questions, raised some others. Even found part of a tie still in the ground - this on a ROW where the track was likely removed over 100 years ago! Image

There are 3 factors which prevent a more complete understanding of the operation:
1. Lack of any pictures of the facility
2. Wooden trestle has long since vanished. There are a couple places where the earth embankment ended, presumably onto a trestle, but we can't determine if the trestle sloped up, down, level, curved, had a switch, or what.
3. Construction of the hiking path of part of the ROW which went from the dock to what later was the South Yard at Charlotte

At one location there is a wide area which COULD have held several tracks, raised up so loads could have been put there and rolled by gravity onto the trestle. But no evidence of tracks was visible. And the north leg of the wye which goes back over to the Charlotte branch on a curve COULD have been where the empties rolled by gravity. But obviously it could not have worked both of those ways.

On that list of mileages I posted, we measured from milepost 8 to where the track to Yates Dock started and it came up short. But the distance between Yates Dock (that south switch) and Double Track Junction - where the north leg of the wye came off the main - was just about right on the money.

Everybody contributed, maps, GPS, etc. I had a great time and learned a lot, and hope the rest did as well. Thanks to Tom Brewer, who I don't believe is on this forum, for sharing his vast knowledge of the docks - old and new - and the surrounding area.

Image
 #1428992  by clearblock
 
BR&P wrote: At one location there is a wide area which COULD have held several tracks, raised up so loads could have been put there and rolled by gravity onto the trestle. But no evidence of tracks was visible. And the north leg of the wye which goes back over to the Charlotte branch on a curve COULD have been where the empties rolled by gravity. But obviously it could not have worked both of those ways.
Image
I think, from what we saw, it would be possible and logical that the empties could have rolled off the trestle by gravity to the north leg. I don't think rolling loaded cars by gravity on to the trestle would have been a good idea. At best, it would be difficult for the rider to properly spot the cars with the handbrake and, at worst, the cars could wind up in the river if the rider had a problem. It is not like a hump yard where a mistake by the rider is just a rough coupling or maybe a small derailment.

I do think it could be possible that there were several raised stub tracks, each sized for a cut of cars that would fit on the trestle. The loads would be brought down from South Yard and the cuts shoved on to the stub tracks. When ready for unloading, the cut could be rolled down on to the trestle lead, clear of the switches, so an engine could then tie on to shove and spot the cut on the trestle. After unloading, the trestle lead switch could be lined for the north wye leg and empties rolled off by gravity.

This is all just wild speculation since I have no idea what operating practices were for coal trestles in the late 1800s but it could fit what we saw. It is too bad we could not see any evidence of where switches may have been located to help put the puzzle together.

Thanks, Don and Tom for a very enjoyable and informative afternoon.
 #1429033  by C2629
 
For the sixty or so years the BR&P/B&O Charlotte Dock was in operation, load riders did indeed roll loaded cars out on the trestle and spot them over the chutes. So the Yates dock could have had riders like Charlotte Dock, but we can only speculate and may never have answers to many of our questions.