Wow.....thank you for sharing that, Charles. I had no clue NYC had that branch to Attica.
Charlie
Charlie
~Charlie Ricker
Railroad Forums
On this date in Rochester rail history...
- Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Moderator: Otto Vondrak
I checked a couple of NYC system maps and they did indeed show the branch to Attica. On the other hand, the history of the A&A also talks about the line from Attica to Batavia. Did the NYC RR acquire the former A&A segment north of Attica?
Last edited by Matt Langworthy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Matt Langworthy
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
My Uncle Bill Hunt had 16mm movies of riding that NYC line into Attica. He worked for the NYC, PC and Conrail. Before he passed, he gave me a VHS copy of those movies. It was some very interesting viewing. They were taken just before the line was removed in the 30's. I'd like to someday get them transferred to DVD. I'm sure he passed out more than one copy of that movie too.
Slightly off topic......since Conrail got 3 lines into Caledonia, the Peanut, the Lehigh Valley and the Erie, what industries were left for them to serve after the Conrail takeover? I know the Peanut was out of service with rumors saying a bridge between Batavia and Leroy was bad. The Lehigh was removed in the later 70's, but I remember seeing a short Conrail train going east of Batavia before then. The Erie lasted into the early 80's with a new connection to the former PC in Batavia. I remember waiting for a train on Seven Springs Rd while attending GCC in 1981. What businesses were left then? And did the R&S take over for Conrail in Leroy? I was young and not a full fledged railfan back then, but knew enough to pay some attention.
I think the A&A was interested in getting to Batavia.
Pulled some dates out:
11/30/1937, last regular NYC train on Attica line.
NYC Batavia to Attica dates to 1832.
NYC Attica to Buffalo is 1836.
1850 Attica to Buffalo went to the Erie and the Attica to Batavia to the NYC.
1854 Attica to Arcade for the A&A. Really only grading with no trains.
Obviously I'm talking precursors to the NYC, A&A and Erie with those really early dates.
Charles
Pulled some dates out:
11/30/1937, last regular NYC train on Attica line.
NYC Batavia to Attica dates to 1832.
NYC Attica to Buffalo is 1836.
1850 Attica to Buffalo went to the Erie and the Attica to Batavia to the NYC.
1854 Attica to Arcade for the A&A. Really only grading with no trains.
Obviously I'm talking precursors to the NYC, A&A and Erie with those really early dates.
Charles
Farmer Joe wrote:Slightly off topic......since Conrail got 3 lines into Caledonia, the Peanut, the Lehigh Valley and the Erie, what industries were left for them to serve after the Conrail takeover? I know the Peanut was out of service with rumors saying a bridge between Batavia and Leroy was bad. The Lehigh was removed in the later 70's, but I remember seeing a short Conrail train going east of Batavia before then. The Erie lasted into the early 80's with a new connection to the former PC in Batavia. I remember waiting for a train on Seven Springs Rd while attending GCC in 1981. What businesses were left then? And did the R&S take over for Conrail in Leroy? I was young and not a full fledged railfan back then, but knew enough to pay some attention.The Erie branch between Batavia and Avon was not included in Conrail. It does look like some sort of connection was built from the B&O (or R&S depending on the year) at Leroy to connect with a former Erie/EL or NYC/PC customer in Leroy.
Matt Langworthy
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
nydepot wrote:I think the A&A was interested in getting to Batavia.Thanks. Where was the A&A/A&F line in relation to the NYC and Erie branches?
Pulled some dates out:
11/30/1937, last regular NYC train on Attica line.
NYC Batavia to Attica dates to 1832.
NYC Attica to Buffalo is 1836.
1850 Attica to Buffalo went to the Erie and the Attica to Batavia to the NYC.
1854 Attica to Arcade for the A&A. Really only grading with no trains.
Obviously I'm talking precursors to the NYC, A&A and Erie with those really early dates.
Charles
Reference to the A&A/A&F:
http://www.american-rails.com/arcade-attica.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Matt Langworthy
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
Conrail did run to Leroy until the R&S took over after which the track was pulled up. Service was as needed. There was a lumber company west of Leroy and I think a food warehouse in town on PC. The lumber company later went out of business and the Western Hay Company occupied the lumber company buildings and shipped out carloads of hay. There were also a few gondolas of horse manure which apparently has a market. R&S Crews did not like to do this switch as it required them to run a considerable distance over slow track and then down a siding several hundred feet to the company. There were also a lot of complaints about the condition of crossing on West Bergen Rd which has since been raised and paved over. The rails are still in place years after service stopped. As far as Caledonia, Jones Chemical remained as a frequent customer. There was also Allen Bailey Tag & Label company which did not have its own siding but had some infrequent carloads-maybe paper. Caledonia Lumber was on the Lehigh and I don't know how long they received carloads. Certainly not after the bridge was taken out but they may have offloaded at another location. I don't think the large Bean company on Route 5 was shipping by rail at that time. Those more familiar with Caledonia may know of others.
The A&A never got anywhere near Batavia and any thoughts of doing so must have been in their very early days. There was some promotion of a narrow gauge line running north of Batavia about the time the West Shore was finished across the top of the County. There were a few promotional articles reported in the Batavia paper and the line was toted as a coal route north to Lake Ontario. I read the articles while doing some research on the West Shore but didn't copy them. Of course a lot of very elaborate schemes never got anywhere at this time. I don't recall if the railroad was named or who the promoters were but this was at the time of the narrow gauge craze and there may have been some connection between, real or imagined between them and the A&A et al to the south as the coal would have to come from there. There would have been some real problems going north with the various ridge lines which run east to west between Batavia to the Lake.
The A&A never got anywhere near Batavia and any thoughts of doing so must have been in their very early days. There was some promotion of a narrow gauge line running north of Batavia about the time the West Shore was finished across the top of the County. There were a few promotional articles reported in the Batavia paper and the line was toted as a coal route north to Lake Ontario. I read the articles while doing some research on the West Shore but didn't copy them. Of course a lot of very elaborate schemes never got anywhere at this time. I don't recall if the railroad was named or who the promoters were but this was at the time of the narrow gauge craze and there may have been some connection between, real or imagined between them and the A&A et al to the south as the coal would have to come from there. There would have been some real problems going north with the various ridge lines which run east to west between Batavia to the Lake.
My SPV atlas definitely has a misprint- no A&A maps or topo maps show an A&A line north of Attica. Also, the Attica & Freedom moniker contributed to the confusion because segment on question extended about 6 miles southeast from Arcade. I think this resolves the debate regarding the Batavia-Attica corridor.
Matt Langworthy
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
Matt Langworthy wrote:My SPV atlas definitely has a misprint- no A&A maps or topo maps show an A&A line north of Attica. Also, the Attica & Freedom moniker contributed to the confusion because segment on question extended about 6 miles southeast from Arcade. I think this resolves the debate regarding the Batavia-Attica corridor.
I recall that the author of that book is from England... It's impressive that he could come up with a lot of information on old abandoned tracks and RR companies that has been gone long time ago
[quoteThe Erie branch between Batavia and Avon was not included in Conrail[/quote]
The Erie branch between the DL&W connection in Alexander to Batavia was closed on day 1 of Conrail. The section from Batavia east to Leroy was run by Conrail at least thru 1981. Like I said, I witnessed a Conrail train on that line with a B23-7 handling that train. Old & Weary's post above also eludes to the fact it was open. Conrail used a connection from the PC near Evans St in Batavia at the diamond where the PC and Erie crossed. Whether it was an existing interchange or installed by Conrail, I don't know. The Erie between Avon and Leroy I think was out of service on day 1 of Conrail. Was that section between Batavia and Leroy an LDL line? That I don't know. If it wasn't part of the Conrail plan, then maybe. But it was intact and used for a few years. I grew up in Batavia with railroading relatives that unfortunately passed on before I could get alot of their knowledge of daily railroading there.
The Erie branch between the DL&W connection in Alexander to Batavia was closed on day 1 of Conrail. The section from Batavia east to Leroy was run by Conrail at least thru 1981. Like I said, I witnessed a Conrail train on that line with a B23-7 handling that train. Old & Weary's post above also eludes to the fact it was open. Conrail used a connection from the PC near Evans St in Batavia at the diamond where the PC and Erie crossed. Whether it was an existing interchange or installed by Conrail, I don't know. The Erie between Avon and Leroy I think was out of service on day 1 of Conrail. Was that section between Batavia and Leroy an LDL line? That I don't know. If it wasn't part of the Conrail plan, then maybe. But it was intact and used for a few years. I grew up in Batavia with railroading relatives that unfortunately passed on before I could get alot of their knowledge of daily railroading there.
Farmer Joe wrote: I'd like to someday get them transferred to DVD. I'm sure he passed out more than one copy of that movie too.Just a warning: VHS tape breaks down quickly and if you have any intentions of getting it transferred do it NOW!
Benjamin L. Maggi
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator
August 28, 1978
The First Belt derailed the 42nd-44th cars of a 52 car train at Otis. 2 boxcars tipped over and hit a building.
CRC2 derailed 4 cars on the former PRR just north of Scottsville Rd,
******
Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Company
Form 31
Order no. 206 August 28, 1968
TO: C&E Northward trains at Leroy
Eng 9409 work extra 7:35 seven thirty five AM until 6:05 six five PM between Brookdale and Leroy not protecting against extra trains except protects against northward extra trains after 2:05 two five PM. Northward trains get this order at Leroy.
HSB
The First Belt derailed the 42nd-44th cars of a 52 car train at Otis. 2 boxcars tipped over and hit a building.
CRC2 derailed 4 cars on the former PRR just north of Scottsville Rd,
******
Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Company
Form 31
Order no. 206 August 28, 1968
TO: C&E Northward trains at Leroy
Eng 9409 work extra 7:35 seven thirty five AM until 6:05 six five PM between Brookdale and Leroy not protecting against extra trains except protects against northward extra trains after 2:05 two five PM. Northward trains get this order at Leroy.
HSB
August 29, 1978
After the lull while stuff got rerailed from the previous day, things got busy. An extra West Side yard crew was called, taxied to Lincoln Park and brought 67 cars to Goodman Street. They then went to CP30 (now CP367) and got a car of livestock, and took it to the Long Branch and spotted it for the customer.
The First Belt had 105 cars heading south from Charlotte, but stalled at Lake Avenue with 2 units dead. The plan was to taxi them to Goodman Street and use the salt train's power to go down and get the train. However, the crew waited 1 1/2 hours for the taxi to pick them up. So when they arrived at the yard they were cut off and sent home.
The Second Belt came in with 26 cars from Kodak, changed to the salt power, went to Lake Ave, and pulled the First Belt's train in.
Fun times!
After the lull while stuff got rerailed from the previous day, things got busy. An extra West Side yard crew was called, taxied to Lincoln Park and brought 67 cars to Goodman Street. They then went to CP30 (now CP367) and got a car of livestock, and took it to the Long Branch and spotted it for the customer.
The First Belt had 105 cars heading south from Charlotte, but stalled at Lake Avenue with 2 units dead. The plan was to taxi them to Goodman Street and use the salt train's power to go down and get the train. However, the crew waited 1 1/2 hours for the taxi to pick them up. So when they arrived at the yard they were cut off and sent home.
The Second Belt came in with 26 cars from Kodak, changed to the salt power, went to Lake Ave, and pulled the First Belt's train in.
Fun times!