Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2013

[cjvrr]

The problem is the county has a lot deeper pockets than the railroad does to fight this legally. Even if the railroad is "right" how much money will they have to spend to prove it?

The railroad's lease is up, regardless of this legal outcome, in 2016. With the way the County politicans are leaning today, is it likely they would renew the lease even if the railroad met the goals set back in 1991?

[Otto Vondrak]

Does the CMRR have a plan to keep the railroad at least to the end of their lease ? or even to the end of this season

All CMRR trains continue to run full schedules, come out for a ride!

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-otto-

[airman00]

Notice too in that article I linked, all they have to do is call it an "executive session" and presto chango "closed door meeting". And then they claim there not plotting the demise of the railroad, just discussing legal matters pertaining to the lease? What a bunch of garbage. Dicussing legal matters pertaining to the lease is just a fancy way of saying your plotting the railroads demise.

[RussNelson]

I do not believe for one minute that this going to the courts is a sign that Hein actually has any actual upper hand. We're talking about a guy that committed a crime by illegally blocking the tracks with a taxpayer owned dump truck.

Hein is the Ulster County administrator. Kingston mayor Shayne "Dump Truck" Gallo parked the truck. I still say that the CMRR should have arrested the mayor of Kingston that Saturday morning. Then he either 1) moves the truck, 2) goes to jail, or 3) fingers the county employee who actually did the parking. I can't imagine him doing anything but #1. Cuz if he had done either 2 or 3, the next step would have been to have the truck towed and send the bill to the mayor. "You want to hit the hornet's nest Mayor Gallo? We're a railroad."

Fortunately, the railroad, unlike the county or the city, is being run by grown-ups who would never do such a thing.

[jmarino]

Does the CMRR have a plan to keep the railroad at least to the end of their lease ? or even to the end of this season

All CMRR trains continue to run full schedules, come out for a ride!

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-otto-

I will be out of town this weekend , but I will be there next weekend

[jmarino]

why has the cmrr and the d&U not teamed up to save the the catskill mtn branch ?

[jmarino]

This question maybe for the D&U anyway what size rail runs down the Fleischman's grade ?

[thebigham]

so are they really claiming the railroad didn't maintain drainage which resulted in washouts? Sounds like some misinformation there.

Exactly. That's their plan. Lie and defame.

[thebigham]

Does the CMRR have a plan to keep the railroad at least to the end of their lease ? or even to the end of this season

OF COURSE! Trains will operate as usual until the end of the season.

[thebigham]

Interesting read from hot rail:

Catskill Mountain RR is Under the Gun
June 13th, 2013
Yesterday the County of Ulster, N.Y., notified the Catskill Mountain Railroad that it is default of its lease on the county-owned former New York Central branch between Kingston and Phoenicia, N.Y. According to the notice, the railroad has failed to comply with the terms of the lease which require it to:
•Rehabilitate at least one mile of track per year
•Maintain trackage to FRA Class 1 standards
•Maintain the right of way free of brush, papers, and trash
•Maintain drainage, resulting in washouts
•Obtain licenses, permits, and approvals for operation of the Cornell Street yard
•Pay a proper percentage of gross income to the county
•Allow the County to inspect the railroad's financial documents
•Provide evidence of insurance
•Allow the public to use the right of way for hiking, cross country skiing, and fishing
If the railroad does not "cure the aforementioned defaults within 30 days," the County says it will declare the lease forfeited and will remove all CMRR property.

The CMRR has insurance! That's another lie.

[thebigham]

I do not believe for one minute that this going to the courts is a sign that Hein actually has any actual upper hand. We're talking about a guy that committed a crime by illegally blocking the tracks with a taxpayer owned dump truck. They are ill-advised.

The best answer to misinformation is facts. CMRR's going to have to present these not just to court, but the public as well. I see absolutely no reason not to. Press conference?

The part that annoys me most about this is that Hein gets paid to sit in his office and plot ways to kill CMRR, while CMRR is all volunteer and time spent dealing with this jerk is a huge distraction - not jsut to the work of the railroad but to lives and livelihoods.

On that note, volunteering and getting behind the railroad is more important now than ever. We have all seen the great progress that volunteering has made on the railroad over the last few years. Now would certainly not be the time to stop.

Someone (sorry, forget who) noted a few weeks ago that an actual protest rally would raise some eyebrows. Perhaps that should be organized to take place, maybe next weekend? (this weekend would be ideal but that is crazy short notice). Outside of hein's office? All that is needed is a time, place and announcement. Oh and maybe a quick fact sheet outlining the actual facts of this situation as opposed to the misinformation spewing from Hein's mouth?

Play up the hurricane recovery card. It is 100% a scandal that FEMA funds were not put to use.

Once upon a time I organized a protest. only 50 to 100 people showed up, but it was more than enough to get significant press attention. Armed with the facts, the opposition looked like fools and lost. It was a little less complicated than this situation, though the principals are the same.

Thank you so much for all your comments. I agree 100% with you.

[CRAZY4TRAINS]

Well time for me to chime in on this subject. Here in Buffalo ny the rail trails have brought in tens of millions of dollars in tourist revenue. New hotels, eateries, and casinos have been built to handle all the new business. Ok I must be smoking a bong. Here in buffalo ny the reality is the trails are a drain on a municipality. Why you ask because they do not attract a lot of tourist period. Most of the trail people here are local not out of towners. One of our biggest rail trails starts in lancaster and runs for several miles along the old NYC peanut line. Where the trail begins you are lucky to see 5 or 6 cars on a great summer day. There are no businesses to bring in sales taxes along these trails to improve the local economy. Don't get me wrong you might one or two out of towners on the trail but thats it. I work in a village that had a quarter mile trail. We spend more man power hours on cutting the grass, weed wacking, and trimming the trees than we see people using the trail. We even plow it for the winter so the locals can walk there dogs. The only thing that brings tourist in is the 1899 lehigh valley depot and 1937 restored caboose. That sponser craft shows, car shows, farmers markets, and much more. That brings in people not the trail. Politicians in that county need to be drug tested and brought back from oz. what reality are they in. At the railroad brings in pure tourist dollars and taxes that's the fact not and opinion on my part. Wait till the towns and county have to dish out money for maintaining this trail without bringing in revenue from out they will get a shock stupid $@&?!

[eehiv]

Saturday, June 15th

In Mt. Tremper Saturday Conductor was Ray Farrell, Engineer was Al Schoessow, Brakeman was Bill Kaba, and Ticket Agent was Russ Hallock.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209288" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209289" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209290" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209291" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209292" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In Phoenicia, George Peck, Neil Remsen, Dave Heick, and Art Vogel continued work in the Phoenicia yard on track. The Duck was also moved to Longyear siding for painting. John Prestopino worked on cleaning the journals on flat car 35111.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In Kingston on Saturday the CMRR ran an additional balloon and lollipop event train. All runs were well attended. The crew included Earl Pardini-engineer, John Watson-conductor, car attendants-George Bain and Ron Epstein, flaggers-Freddie Rasmussen and Dave Hilliard, brakeman-Mark Glaser. Ken Darmstadt was ticket agent.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Sunday, June 16th

Crew today was Walt Otto Engineer, Tony Bocchino Brakeman, George Bain Ticket Agent and Dan Howard was Conductor. Neil Remsen rode the point on the first east end shove and rode the cab on the first westbound run to start to learn passenger service operations.

George Peck and Neil Remsen worked in the Phoenicia yard.

On Sunday in Kingston, crews continued cleanup of tie remnants/debris from the new west switch construction outside the fence at Cornell St. Yard. The tamper saw action just west of I-587. ROW maintenance crew consisted of Al Schoessow, Ron Epstein, and Mark Glaser. Assessment of the LIRR passenger coach's diesel generator was begun by Al Schoessow and Ernie Klopping. Repair work on the MOW Hi-rail pickup continued.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

[Sir Ray]

Well time for me to chime in on this subject. Here in Buffalo ny the rail trails have brought in tens of millions of dollars in tourist revenue. New hotels, eateries, and casinos have been built to handle all the new business. Ok I must be smoking a bong. Here in buffalo ny the reality is the trails are a drain on a municipality.

Careful what you say, apparently the Ulster County government is not above using Movie Ad style editing on your quote:

"Here in Buffalo NY, the rail trails have brought in tens of millions of dollars in tourist revenue!" -- Crazy4Trains, Railroad.Net blog

How about this - tell the "rail-trail" advocates that studies have shown the only way rail-trails can produce significant tourist revenue on the order of the tourist railroads they replace is to open them to Off-roaders/ATVers/Dirt-Bikers (which may actually be true for many cases, come to think of it)

[jakirk]

Here's a link to a Railway Age opinion piece concerning the Catskill Mountain Railroad.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blo ... l?channel=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;