Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2013

[eehiv]

Saturday, June 15th

On Saturday we will be running in Mt. Tremper and Kingston.

In Mt. Tremper, George Peck plans to support the train crews through the first run, then his crew will switch to Phoenicia where they will continue work cleaning up the Phoenicia yard. Meet at 9:30am at Mt. Tremper.


Sunday, June 16th

Trains will be running in Mt. Tremper.

In Kingston, a track crew will be starting at 9am at Cornell Street Yard. Crews will also be working on a general cleanup of the yard. We also request a brush crew to string trim the track west of the Earl Pardini bridge to make tie marking easier.

George Peck will be working in Phoenicia starting at 10am.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

[tree68]

I keep seeing "private" used together with CMRR - is CMRR a private entity, or is it a not-for-profit? That's an important distinction, and could be coloring the public's opinion.

[scoostraw]

It seems as though the trail people have a close relationship with the mayor of Kingston.

This is the key as I see it. The trail folks have built relationships, while the CMRR seems to not have done that so much. Unfortunately it is politics and that is how it works.

I wish the CMRR the best of luck. They are really going to need it. The only thing I can see saving the RR is an uprising by the public. Unfortunately I think most people just don't care enough.

It is not going to be fun watching this all unfold.

[truck6018]

I keep seeing "private" used together with CMRR - is CMRR a private entity, or is it a not-for-profit? That's an important distinction, and could be coloring the public's opinion.

There are plenty of organizations that are private and not for profit as the two have nothing to do with one another. Private/public is an ownership status and not for/for profit is a tax status under the US Tax Code.

The largest field of private not for profit organizations is probably health related fields.

[tree68]

I keep seeing "private" used together with CMRR - is CMRR a private entity, or is it a not-for-profit? That's an important distinction, and could be coloring the public's opinion.

There are plenty of organizations that are private and not for profit as the two have nothing to do with one another. Private/public is an ownership status and not for/for profit is a tax status under the US Tax Code.

The largest field of private not for profit organizations is probably health related fields.

Granted.

The point is, "private" generally denotes some sort of commercial venture - ie, for profit. Public generally denotes municipal ownership and is not a factor in this discussion.

It's the profit/not-for-profit distinction that needs to be made. As I see the picture being painted in those articles, CMRR is a private, for-profit business, like any other business. Given the situation, that's not an apt description.

Methinks that if the public perception of CMRR reflected the truth - a not-for-profit organization staffed chiefly by volunteers - the politicians and trail advocates might have a tougher sell on making the line into a trail.

[eehiv]

The CMRR is a railroad corporation organized in the state of NY. That is why it is for-profit, as all railroads are. By being organized as a RR Corporation in the state of NY, you also have the benefits of the railroad laws of the State of NY. One of the benefits of this law is that you can arrest people who put dump trucks on tracks if you really want to.

See this if you want more info. We actually have the right of eminent domain if we care to use it.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/RRD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EH

[airman00]

Well this is interesting... (saw this link on the CMRR facebook page thought I'd post it here)

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/20 ... 777174.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here is a qoute:

KINGSTON — Two members of the Ulster County Railroad Advisory Committee have resigned from the panel amid the continuing controversy over the future use of the former Ulster & Delaware tracks in the county.

The committee met two weeks ago for the first time in several years, but its chairman, Michael Berardi, resigned on Sunday, saying too much of the discussion over the future of the rail corridor is happening “behind closed doors.”

[UP4141]

Interesting read from hot rail:

Catskill Mountain RR is Under the Gun
June 13th, 2013
Yesterday the County of Ulster, N.Y., notified the Catskill Mountain Railroad that it is default of its lease on the county-owned former New York Central branch between Kingston and Phoenicia, N.Y. According to the notice, the railroad has failed to comply with the terms of the lease which require it to:
•Rehabilitate at least one mile of track per year
•Maintain trackage to FRA Class 1 standards
•Maintain the right of way free of brush, papers, and trash
•Maintain drainage, resulting in washouts
•Obtain licenses, permits, and approvals for operation of the Cornell Street yard
•Pay a proper percentage of gross income to the county
•Allow the County to inspect the railroad's financial documents
•Provide evidence of insurance
•Allow the public to use the right of way for hiking, cross country skiing, and fishing
If the railroad does not "cure the aforementioned defaults within 30 days," the County says it will declare the lease forfeited and will remove all CMRR property.

[charlie6017]

This is only my thoughts on this, but wouldn't you think these guys would WANT to fight
this out together and try to see this mission through to help the CMRR? Sheesh!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it helps much with two guys bouncing off and away
from the advisory committee. Not good.

Charlie

[UP4141]

This is only my thoughts on this, but wouldn't you think these guys would WANT to fight
this out together and try to see this mission through to help the CMRR? Sheesh!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it helps much with two guys bouncing off and away
from the advisory committee. Not good.

Charlie

Just a thought, maybe some evil people in higher places have embarrassing e mails or phone numbers of people that they should not be associated with and are being black mailed with them.

[jmarino]

Does the CMRR have a plan to keep the railroad at least to the end of their lease ? or even to the end of this season

[lvrr325]

Anybody informed the county how many thousands of dollars it will cost to remove the CMR's equipment from the line, especially since Kingston won't even let some of it be brought into town to be removed?

Anybody pointed out it's going to eat a big chunk of the track budget to start a legal fight over this trail bullcrap?

[DogBert]

The enemies of the railroad are finally being put in the spotlight, so their reaction is to try to cut the lease. They're forced to show the hand they've been hovering over in their private meetings. If CMRR has a good lawyer these foolish politicians will fail. If the comments on the daily freeman posts are a barometer, they are failing in the court of public opinion as well.

Threatening the railroad so harshly will only serve to galvanize the railfan community. (anyone working on an Article for Trains magazine or other publications about this fiasco?) It also should be a wake up call to any county taxpayer: the choice is clear - let the RR run and bring tourists to the area, or trade it in for a trail that the politicos want to spend millions of dollars on. Millions they'll probably give to some contractor friend of theirs.

I hope Hein has some other career to fall back on. Maybe he can go up to Albany with the rest of the corrupt. CMRR should set up a police department (even if it's just one retired LEO) and arrest him next time he pulls a stunt like he did with the dump truck.

[tahawus84]

so are they really claiming the railroad didn't maintain drainage which resulted in washouts? Sounds like some misinformation there.

[DogBert]

I do not believe for one minute that this going to the courts is a sign that Hein actually has any actual upper hand. We're talking about a guy that committed a crime by illegally blocking the tracks with a taxpayer owned dump truck. They are ill-advised.

The best answer to misinformation is facts. CMRR's going to have to present these not just to court, but the public as well. I see absolutely no reason not to. Press conference?

The part that annoys me most about this is that Hein gets paid to sit in his office and plot ways to kill CMRR, while CMRR is all volunteer and time spent dealing with this jerk is a huge distraction - not jsut to the work of the railroad but to lives and livelihoods.

On that note, volunteering and getting behind the railroad is more important now than ever. We have all seen the great progress that volunteering has made on the railroad over the last few years. Now would certainly not be the time to stop.

Someone (sorry, forget who) noted a few weeks ago that an actual protest rally would raise some eyebrows. Perhaps that should be organized to take place, maybe next weekend? (this weekend would be ideal but that is crazy short notice). Outside of hein's office? All that is needed is a time, place and announcement. Oh and maybe a quick fact sheet outlining the actual facts of this situation as opposed to the misinformation spewing from Hein's mouth?

Play up the hurricane recovery card. It is 100% a scandal that FEMA funds were not put to use.

Once upon a time I organized a protest. only 50 to 100 people showed up, but it was more than enough to get significant press attention. Armed with the facts, the opposition looked like fools and lost. It was a little less complicated than this situation, though the principals are the same.