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  • Derailment in Paulsboro

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

 #1117563  by Flat-Wheeler
 
Freddy wrote:I've got a question. Do some of ya'll think that the infrastructure on the railroad is really that bad, or just certain roads? Reason I ask is that when I was a maintainer there was ALWAYS a
gang working somewhere. If it wasn't a CAT Gang(Continueous Action Tamper), then it would be a regular surfacing gang and if it wasn't that it'd be a tie or rail gang.
Outside of advanced track profiles for high speed, I wouldn't think the majority of the flat ground track is lacking upgrade and attention. It's the bridges and trestles infrastructure, dating back eighty to hundred years or so, held together with bandaid repair projects every 10 years to avoid the full cost of expensive replacement. Cost prohibitive infrastructure replacement is not confined to any particular road. It is universally applicable industry wide.

From Conrail, to CSX, to NS, and regionals such as Meridian & Bigbee. Cases in point: A trestle through the Alabama swamps collapsed on the M&B back in 2007 sending NASA Space Shuttle booster sections and crew cars into the swamp.
And on the NS in W. New York, for decades now, an 1875 Erie built bridge (now post Conrail) spanning 1/4 mile at 200+ feet above the Genesee river gorge on the NS mainline at Letchworth Park in Portageville, NY, has been teetering, loosing support braces, popping rivets and bolts. With no fewer than 8-10 daily through freights consisting of 150+ cars for the past 135 years, this bridge is a perfect example of worn out infrastructure. See railroad.net link here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 28&t=74415
 #1117667  by Ken W2KB
 
charlie6017 wrote:
TAMR213 wrote:And let the superfluous lawsuits begin: "Paulsboro mother files $10 Million suit against Conrail following toxic train derailment"
Yep.......we all knew these suits would start flying in. The first of a bazillion, I'm sure. My only question is why isn't she filing suit against the
authorities as well considering she wasn't living within the evacuated area?

Charlie

My guess is that most likely because government agencies, both NJ and Federal, under their respective Tort Claims Acts cannot be sued in tort in the same manner as other entities. The basic premise stems from the legal principle of olden times that "the king can do no wrong." The Tort Claims Acts were enacted to allow limited tort claims against the government for ministerial acts but not for discretionary acts. In general, the plaintiff must file a notice of claim within a certain number of days (I think it's 90 days under NJ law) and follow that process. At a certain point in the process if not settled, the matter can be filed in court, but one can't start out in court.
 #1118050  by Tommy Meehan
 
From observation the railroad infrastucture seems reasonably well-maintained to me. I don't have any great concerns with it. I remember years ago during Penn Central's bankruptcy years when a lot of railroads seemed definitely undermaintained. That was a result of no money. That doesn't seem to be the ca$e today. Ka-ching! :)

I was also directed to a link to the FRA regulations concerning railroad bridges. ( https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... dards#p-27 )
Railroads are required to inspect their bridges, with qualified inspectors working for competent engineers, at least once each calendar year. That is twice the frequency (every two years) required for highway bridges.

Btw, the 2009 derailment at Mantua Draw has been mentioned. I discovered the finding for the cause was corrosion of the steel piles at the mud line of the creek, the result of anaerobic (sulphur-reducing) bacterial activity. That was also the problem with the CSX (former Conrail/PRR) Anacostia River Bridge in DC and why it had to be replaced.
 #1118164  by pumpers
 
It's been 10 days or so now and no cars (except for the boxcar and spline car) moved yet. I take it by the lack of any postings, that there is no ongoing effort to date to build a bypass or shoefly, or whatever. Is that right? Perhaps they are limited by private property in the way.
JS
 #1118190  by chuchubob
 
pumpers wrote:It's been 10 days or so now and no cars (except for the boxcar and spline car) moved yet. I take it by the lack of any postings, that there is no ongoing effort to date to build a bypass or shoefly, or whatever. Is that right? Perhaps they are limited by private property in the way.
JS
Correct. My uninformed guess is that permitting and construction of a temporary bridge would take longer than the cleanup.
One tank car was removed from Mantua Creek after I left Tuesday afternoon.
 #1118203  by Tommy Meehan
 
Following removal of the breached rail car, in the coming days teams will remove three derailed cars containing vinyl chloride on the east side of the East Jefferson Street Bridge. Once these four derailed cars have been removed, crews will work 24 hours a day to repair the train track and bridge.

After track and bridge repairs are complete, crews will remove the two final derailed rail cars containing vinyl chloride and ethanol near the west bank of Mantua Creek. - from Paulsboro response website
There's information on the Paulsboro response site [see above quote] which I have linked several times and which is updated regularly.

The 150-ton crane is in place and the Weeks crews were cutting bridge pilings over the weekend to make more room for the crane to maneuver. All the spilled hazardous chemicals have been removed although several derailed tankers loaded with dangerous chemicals remain.

Because of the nature of the accident and where it took place (a waterway), the U.S. Coast Guard is taking a major role in the cleanup. I'm sure they want to be extra careful due to the extremely toxic nature of vinyl chloride.

I agree a shoofly or bypass would be a major undertaking. Once the derailed cars are safely removed I think repairs will proceed fairly quickly. I'm getting the impression the bridge was not that badly damaged but I guess we have to wait and see.
 #1118643  by Tommy Meehan
 
Interesting to me, if you look at the official Paulsboro incident site http://www.paulsbororesponse.com/about you'll discover the incident is under the command of the Department of Homeland Security! Their National Incident Management System (NIMS) is the agency coordinating the efforts of responding agencies. These include the U.S. Coast Guard, NJ DEP, N.J. Office of Emergency Management, the Paulsboro Fire Department and, of course, Conrail.

The breached tanker was placed on a barge Tuesday.

Image

A view of the scene today shows that (what I think is) the east end of the bridge span is partially collapsed. Was that the cause of the derailment or did it happen as a result of the derailment?

Image

Btw the above photos are USCG photos and are not under copyright. They do request they be credited.
 #1118704  by Flat-Wheeler
 
Looking at that last photo is good indication of what really went down. I'm not a gambling man, and I am by no means rich, but I'd be willing to put money on it the abutments beneath the swinging portion of the bridge gave way while the train was crossing. And the storm waves from a few weeks back exacerbated or sped up the deterioration of the supporting structure beneath the bridge. Keep in mind, the train was traveling less than 10 mph.

I wreckon the bridge segment that vertically dropped, was not long enough to have enough derailed cars on it at the same instant, to cause an overload condition. The photo shows a bridge section long enough to accommodate at most 2 (maybe 3 crumpled cars) tanks cars. That's not 250 tons of locomotives or 5 coal cars accordioned into a crumpled 100 ft mass. This was not enough to cause a failure due to a derailment.
 #1119154  by Tommy Meehan
 
I had a chance to listen to NTSB Chairman Deborah Hersman's final media briefing. It was very interesting. Chairman Hersman explained between March 1 and Dec. 1 the bridge's default position is open. That a train crew must approach the bridge closely enough to be able to see that no boats (almost all recreational) are coming through the draw. If the waterway is clear the crew can then activate a closing. The crew will then get a green signal and the bridge will 'announce' over the radio, "Bridge closed."

The bridge has four sliding locks and when all are fully engaged and locked the signal will go to green. Once the train crosses and the signal circuit is no longer occupied, the bridge opens automatically. The bridge then 'announces,' "Bridge is open."

Other germane points were:

1. After Sandy Conrail performed two visual inspections of the bridge on October 30th and 31st. No problems were found.
2. However, nine "trouble tickets" (crew reports) were logged between October 27th and Nov. 30th (when the accident took place).
3. Of the nine trouble tickets, several were for debris on the bridge or light bulbs out. Trouble tickets were logged, however, that were directly related to the bridge's moveable parts. One was on Nov. 19th at 11:21 PM when a crew reported the bridge would not lock.
4. About twenty-eight hours before the accident (3:17 am 11/29/12) a crew reported being able to get the bridge down but it failed to completely close by about four inches. After several attempts they were able to get the bridge locked. The following morning two Conrail supervisors went to the bridge to inspect the moveable parts. They were on-site two hours and reported making several adjustments to the moving parts. The bridge was then operating normally.
5. During the afternoon and evening of Nov. 29th four trains crossed the bridge. None reported a problem getting the bridge closed. However the fourth train (at 11:15 pm, the last train to cross before the accident) reported that after clearing the bridge signal circuit the bridge announced, "Bridge failed to operate." Meaning the bridge did not go to default mode (open).
6. The train that was involved in the accident also got the message, "Bridge failed to operate." After a visual inspection the crew proceeded westbound (by compass). The engineer and conductor told the NTSB that after the locomotives and the first few cars crossed they "saw the bridge collapse" and cars began to derail.
7. Chairman Hersman emphasized that it has not been documented that the bridge did collapse. Once the derailed cars are cleared and investigators can more closely examine the bridge a determination will be made as to the exact sequence of events. She did say that investigators are primarily interested in the bridge's moveable parts.

Below is a link to her briefing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkQrftUf ... e=youtu.be

.
 #1119322  by Ken W2KB
 
Tommy Meehan wrote:Interesting to me, if you look at the official Paulsboro incident site http://www.paulsbororesponse.com/about you'll discover the incident is under the command of the Department of Homeland Security! Their National Incident Management System (NIMS) is the agency coordinating the efforts of responding agencies. These include the U.S. Coast Guard, NJ DEP, N.J. Office of Emergency Management, the Paulsboro Fire Department and, of course, Conrail..
The Coast Guard was moved from the US Department of Transportation to Dept. of Homeland Security some years ago which is why DHS is listed as the command. The Coast Guard's hazmat response capability was increased substantially after it moved to DHS. It's really the Coast Guard as part of DHS that is in "command" I suspect.
 #1119615  by Tommy Meehan
 
Three derailed cars were removed from the accident site today (Friday). That leaves two more cars to go.
"The first car we moved today presented a huge challenge logistically, since it was the most vertical of all the derailed cars," said Capt. Kathy Moore, the Coast Guard incident commander. "The Unified Command is very pleased with the progress made today. We are now setting our sights on removing the two remaining rail cars as safely and quickly as possible."
The site could be cleared of derailed cars this weekend and that will allow investigators to access the damaged bridge. To figure out what went wrong and, more importantly, figure out how to repair it.

http://www.paulsbororesponse.com/conten ... railment-0
 #1119807  by Tommy Meehan
 
Image
USCG photo

This photo was taken about Dec. 6th when the crane was first brought in. I **think** the four cars visibly derailed off the bridge itself have all been removed. The NTSB originally said four cars were actually in Mantua Creek and had to be removed first. The silver car that is mostly submerged with one end resting partially on the bridge fenders is the one I think they had the most trouble removing. [Edit - Actually they say the toughest to lift clear was the black tanker to the right, half on the bridge and half in the water.] I believe the black tanker on the left, partially out of the water and on its side, was the one that was leaking.

I think the two tank cars visible on the right side are the two remaining cars they are talking about removing, probably today I would think.

In the photo above Philadelphia is to the right, the Deepwater plant to the left and the Delaware River would be at the top of the photo (if you could see it). The train was operating right to left.

One question I had. Since the locomotives made it safely across (right to left) that means they are stranded somewhere to the west, though I haven't seen them in any photos. Anybody know where they are? Shut down and parked on a siding or along the branch main track somewhere?
 #1119930  by Tommy Meehan
 
The Unified Command announced Saturday that the rail car containing ethanol has been successfully removed from the East Jefferson Street Bridge Derailment incident site in Paulsboro, N.J......Bridge and track repair is continuing throughout the day and evening. The bridge is being inspected by an independent bridge inspection firm in preparation for returning trains to service in the next two days.
One car left, just needs to be rerailed. Could have trains running by Monday? That's good news. Guess they're not finding the damage they were afraid they might find.

One question: The four sliding locks on the moveable span. When fully engaged and locked, do they carry load? Could that be what happened? The bridge span got out of balance?

http://www.paulsbororesponse.com/conten ... railment-1
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