Derailment in Paulsboro

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MACTRAXX
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Location: Islandia,Long Island,NY

Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by MACTRAXX » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:05 pm

Everyone: I am visiting friends in Philadelphia and I noticed the attention that this accident got in the news media...

The NTSB is getting involved and hopefully they find out what exactly caused this accident...

It could be a number of factors such as the bridge and/or abutment condition,the bridge's miter rails
or perhaps it was a defect on one of the cars of that train causing this derailment...

As mentioned this is becoming a big CSAO problem because there is no alternate useable route...

Will this bridge be rebuilt or replaced following this accident? The current bridge may well be a total loss...

This bridge with its A span draw reminds me of the LIRR's old Wreck Lead drawbridge that spanned Reynolds
Channel on the Long Beach Branch between Island Park and Long Beach...That bridge was a wood pile supported
structure that ran low over the water level and was over time becoming a maintenance headache...

In 1988 this bridge was replaced with a new structure that sloped upward toward a larger draw span...The MTA
bought the drawspan used from a defunct Florida rail line and shipped it up north on barges...

In closing CSAO will have to make decisions concerning this bridge...It is important for their South Jersey freight
routes as most here realize...

MACTRAXX
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CarterB
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by CarterB » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:29 pm

CBS radio news just reported accident caused by a 'signal problem' ???????????
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cdruhl
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by cdruhl » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:37 pm

From what I read:

Crew shows up and interlocking signal protecting movements across bridge is red. Crew tries to clear up signal to green with their radio codes and it doesn't work. This prompts call to dispatcher and visual inspection of bridge for anything that may appear obvious for causing the signal to stay red. I would think they would have looked at the point (miter?) rails at the least. Nothing found, the crew gets permission to cross at 10 mph. They actually went across a bit slower at 8 mph but, to me, it appears that whatever defect that was causing that red signal caused the wreck.

One thing I noticed today -- the bridge has no guardrails -- nothing to prevent a derailed train from going off the bridge. Am I seeing that wrong?

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charlie6017
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by charlie6017 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:47 pm

Given the time of year, I wonder if a temporary "fixed-position" bridge will be in order for the time being so
that the industries can still be served?

Charlie
~Charlie Ricker

scotty269
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by scotty269 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:50 pm

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?secti ... id=8904629

NTSB reports train crew had a stop signal approaching the bridge. Engineer attempted to send a radio signal to lock the bridge and get a proceed signal multiple times, to no avail. The conductor did a walking inspection of the bridge, and didn't see anything unusual. Dispatcher gave permission to proceed past the stop, and the bridge finally gave way after about 7-8 cars.

CarterB
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by CarterB » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:18 pm

From videos on the bridge in operation, it appears that the bridge had to be locked by a person both flipping several large levers and turning an abutment lock.
How could this all have been done remotely by radio??
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scotty269
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by scotty269 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:11 pm

I like how the news is blasting the headline "Signal problems precede Paulsboro train wreck". Were the signals actually doing their job - stopping train movements due to a problem? I'll be waiting to see how this plays out!

MedicSutton
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by MedicSutton » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:22 pm

Think the bridge might have come out of might have come out of alignment during the last earthquake?
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Steve F45
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by Steve F45 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:22 pm

Imo, i doubit. I dont think that earthquake was strong enough. But im sure they'll toss that idea around. Plus when was the last train to go over the bridge before the derailment?

CarterB
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by CarterB » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:07 pm

If the bridge was in the 'closed' position, then who aligned it that way, who locked the bridge levers and who turned the abutment lock?
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Sirsonic
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by Sirsonic » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:19 pm

The bridge was "automated" a few years ago, no operator is required to operate any of the bridge controls or locks. By entering a numeric code using the keypad on the radio the bridge is directed to close, and display a signal for the requested direction.
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pdtrains
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by pdtrains » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:31 am

From what I have heard, there have been several times recently when a crew could not get a green light at the bridge, and the DS would talk them across the bridge, after crew made a physical inspection of the bridge. My guess is that the bridge had not been locking properly, or completely, although it looked OK with eyeball inspection.
They were probably lucky up till now, and luck with a not properly locked bridge can only go on for so long. I don't know that much about this bridge, but with others, the locking isn't only to line up the rails, it also is for the ends of the bridge to be supported by the abutments. Could have been that the bridge support at the abutment failed, or as mentioned before, an abutment could have failed. I also expect that a temp. fixed bridge will be put in place, and a marine bulletin will be issued for marine traffic. There's also an unused rolling bascule over in PA right across the river, just south of essington on the Stoney creek freight line.
There are PRR and Reading bridges side by side there. The PRR bridge is in use,. the Reading bridge is no longer used, and has been in the up position for the last ?? years.

CarterB
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by CarterB » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:13 am

Darby Creek P&R Bridge looks to be about the right size. But....is it feasibly functional and moveable??
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scotty269
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by scotty269 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:54 pm

Some comments from "unnamed" sources - http://www.philly.com/philly/news/break ... lment.html

CPSK
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Re: Derailment in Paulsboro

Post by CPSK » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:56 pm

Who is the owner / maintainer of this bridge?

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