North Brookfield RR

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BandA
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by BandA » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:06 pm

papabarn wrote:
frrc wrote:Back in the news again....

http://www.telegram.com/article/20150824/NEWS/150829585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here we go again. I may be wrong but I think that technically East Brookfield's only recourse is to the STB and they would face a really tough sell.
The NIMBYs in East Brookfield should hire the same lawyers fighting the G&U, lol. We're talking what, once a day or so, 5 day a week freight. During the day when people are at work. Of course if they haul a bunch of smelly garbage that might be a problem.

ILUVEB
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by ILUVEB » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:44 am

papabarn wrote:
frrc wrote:Back in the news again....

http://www.telegram.com/article/20150824/NEWS/150829585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here we go again. I may be wrong but I think that technically East Brookfield's only recourse is to the STB and they would face a really tough sell.
Incorrect. We in EB don't have to go to the STB, while the NBRR would and there have been no filings. There is no preemption, as the line was abandoned legally through ICC in 1972, NBRR is at best a landowner, and NOT a RR. Totally different scenario than G&U as that line was not legally abandoned as is the case here. The tough sell is on NB, and again, we in EB are more than prepared for the next round of this farce.

Tower35
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by Tower35 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:19 pm

Incorrect. The railroad was not formally abandoned. Please provide a link to your source as proof. The only notices were a discontinuance of service by PC. Thereafter the town and corporation sold the rail to gain some revenue. The NBRR has always remained a valid corporation owned by the town never giving up the original charter. The original terms made the Board of Selectmen the railroad's Board of Directors which remains in place today. The ROW also falls under the rules of railbanking for possible eventual re-use. Too bad for the residents who thought the railroad would never come back. Not only have they abutted the ROW but some have encroached on the land with sheds, gardens, and pools on land owned by the town and the North Brookfield RR Corporation.

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by daylight4449 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:46 pm

ILUVEB wrote: Incorrect. We in EB don't have to go to the STB, while the NBRR would and there have been no filings. There is no preemption, as the line was abandoned legally through ICC in 1972, NBRR is at best a landowner, and NOT a RR. Totally different scenario than G&U as that line was not legally abandoned as is the case here. The tough sell is on NB, and again, we in EB are more than prepared for the next round of this farce.
So who's "we"? Unless I missed something, the town really doesn't have all that much money to toss around in a legal fight. You guys had a hard enough time scrounging up the change for the school district a few years back, so would you really want to bankrupt a town that's on the decline when you could instead try to see how the NBRR could BENEFIT the town?

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by MaineCoonCat » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:26 pm

daylight4449 wrote:
ILUVEB wrote: Incorrect. We in EB don't have to go to the STB, while the NBRR would and there have been no filings. There is no preemption, as the line was abandoned legally through ICC in 1972, NBRR is at best a landowner, and NOT a RR. Totally different scenario than G&U as that line was not legally abandoned as is the case here. The tough sell is on NB, and again, we in EB are more than prepared for the next round of this farce.
So who's "we"? Unless I missed something, the town really doesn't have all that much money to toss around in a legal fight. You guys had a hard enough time scrounging up the change for the school district a few years back, so would you really want to bankrupt a town that's on the decline when you could instead try to see how the NBRR could BENEFIT the town?
Didn't we go through this in August of 2012 and make the determination that 1). With ILUVEB, "we" might refer to one person and 2). The "abandonment" claim cannot be substantiated by ILUVEB?
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by frrc » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm

On the other hand, aren't they planning a rail trail for the road bed ?
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NYC27
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by NYC27 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:23 pm

I'm surprised that East Brookfield hasn't petitioned the STB for an adverse abandonment on this railroad. They have as good a case as anyone could ever have.

Tower35
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by Tower35 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:52 pm

NYC27 wrote:I'm surprised that East Brookfield hasn't petitioned the STB for an adverse abandonment on this railroad. They have as good a case as anyone could ever have.
Not as good as the railbanking statutes. The "we" are only a small group of land abutters who have shot themselves in the foot by encroaching on the ROW. One owns a landlocked piece of property that will require a rail crossing to reach. Another built a retaining wall on the RR property to hold up their swimming pool. The town of North Brookfield AKA railroad corporation still holds title to the land to rebuild the railroad. BTW, it will be a private investor who will be doing that and only making a lease payment to the town.

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by ILUVEB » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:03 pm

papabarn wrote:
daylight4449 wrote:
ILUVEB wrote: Incorrect. We in EB don't have to go to the STB, while the NBRR would and there have been no filings. There is no preemption, as the line was abandoned legally through ICC in 1972, NBRR is at best a landowner, and NOT a RR. Totally different scenario than G&U as that line was not legally abandoned as is the case here. The tough sell is on NB, and again, we in EB are more than prepared for the next round of this farce.
So who's "we"? Unless I missed something, the town really doesn't have all that much money to toss around in a legal fight. You guys had a hard enough time scrounging up the change for the school district a few years back, so would you really want to bankrupt a town that's on the decline when you could instead try to see how the NBRR could BENEFIT the town?
Didn't we go through this in August of 2012 and make the determination that 1). With ILUVEB, "we" might refer to one person and 2). The "abandonment" claim cannot be substantiated by ILUVEB?
Wow. Where to begin? Perhaps some of you are not familiar with EB, as its not a town in decline at all. It is true that we are stuck in a dysfunctional school district with Spencer, which has financial issues - but not EB. As before, regarding the claim we (yes WE) have the substantiation we need. You can get it too.

Ask yourselves how this "project" which Dan Bigda predicted as imminent in 2011 did not happen and is now being studied again? As for benefit - there is none possible for EB - only for Dan Bigda. I get it - a number of you are Bigda, his fans & his friends and you never saw a rail project you did not like. This negatively impacts EB at zero benefit to EB. Good luck with the railbanking though. You will need it.

You can call us NIMBY's (and many will), but if someone was attempting to do anything that would profit them alone while dramatically altering the quality of life in your town, let alone your property values, what would you do? Maybe some of you would like that, but sorry, this is a fight, and we did not ask for this. But we will prevail, because we have the facts and the law on our side. And we will pay the price to win.

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by F-line to Dudley via Park » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:39 pm

Wow. This thread sure went to crazytown in a hurry.

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by YamaOfParadise » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:01 pm

The property values thing is definitely a legitimate issue that I can at least sympathize with, as I don't really know how that can be compensated for. But at the end of the day, the abutting property owners still should have known that being adjacent to a railway right-of-way, dormant or not, entails the risk of it being reactivated, or even just converted to a trail. The only adverse negative I can see for the public of East Brookfield is the grade crossing at the intersection of Route 9 and North Brookfield Road. The intersection will definitely have to be re-engineered, and I could imagine that if a train went through at commute time it could probably back up some traffic. Despite that, a branch line isn't going to have long or frequent trains, so a train in the off hours wouldn't disrupt anything significant. The only damage to East Brookfield is going to be to private individuals; as I previously said, I can somewhat sympathize with those worrying about property values, but those who actually encroached on property they do not own are getting their just deserts. If noise is of concern, have the town apply to the FRA for a Train Horn Quiet Zone, so the horn won't need to be sounded at the grade crossing, which is the more widely felt disruption a railroad can have as far as noise in an area. The fact that the public library and some baseball fields are adjacent to the branch shouldn't be a concern, particularly because the train will not likely be passing through at hours these facilities would be used. Admittedly, I do agree that there's little benefit for East Brookfield from the reconstruction of the line, as the few places a new industry could go in in EB would already be close enough to the B&A mainline to get rail access through just a spur. Still, that shouldn't mean that a property owner can't use property they legally own for whatever purposes they wish, and take use of a valid railroad charter that they legally own. Nor should the rest of East Brookfield's residents be burdened with the legal costs for digging in and fighting this at any cost like what has happened in the Grafton and Upton Railroad saga. I'd be saying the same thing even if I did own property adjacent to the railroad.

To address something other than ILUVEB, if/when the rail gets relaid, would this become the property of the railroad proper (as in North Brookfield), or Mr. Bigda's company that would be relaying it?
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Wow. This thread sure went to crazytown in a hurry.
Yep. Seems little old RR.net is getting more attention from people outside of its target demographic as of late. :wink:
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BandA
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by BandA » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:40 am

YamaOfParadise wrote:The property values thing is definitely a legitimate issue that I can at least sympathize with, as I don't really know how that can be compensated for. But at the end of the day, the abutting property owners still should have known that being adjacent to a railway right-of-way, dormant or not, entails the risk of it being reactivated, or even just converted to a trail. The only adverse negative I can see for the public of East Brookfield is the grade crossing at the intersection of Route 9 and North Brookfield Road. The intersection will definitely have to be re-engineered, and I could imagine that if a train went through at commute time it could probably back up some traffic. Despite that, a branch line isn't going to have long or frequent trains, so a train in the off hours wouldn't disrupt anything significant. The only damage to East Brookfield is going to be to private individuals; as I previously said, I can somewhat sympathize with those worrying about property values, but those who actually encroached on property they do not own are getting their just deserts. If noise is of concern, have the town apply to the FRA for a Train Horn Quiet Zone, so the horn won't need to be sounded at the grade crossing, which is the more widely felt disruption a railroad can have as far as noise in an area. The fact that the public library and some baseball fields are adjacent to the branch shouldn't be a concern, particularly because the train will not likely be passing through at hours these facilities would be used. Admittedly, I do agree that there's little benefit for East Brookfield from the reconstruction of the line, as the few places a new industry could go in in EB would already be close enough to the B&A mainline to get rail access through just a spur. Still, that shouldn't mean that a property owner can't use property they legally own for whatever purposes they wish, and take use of a valid railroad charter that they legally own. Nor should the rest of East Brookfield's residents be burdened with the legal costs for digging in and fighting this at any cost like what has happened in the Grafton and Upton Railroad saga. I'd be saying the same thing even if I did own property adjacent to the railroad.

To address something other than ILUVEB, if/when the rail gets relaid, would this become the property of the railroad proper (as in North Brookfield), or Mr. Bigda's company that would be relaying it?
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Wow. This thread sure went to crazytown in a hurry.
Yep. Seems little old RR.net is getting more attention from people outside of its target demographic as of late. :wink:
Good post. I would thing NBRR would retain title and whoever the operator is would have a smaller payment for some period to account for their improvements.

When is this going to happen though?

As for the RT9 crossing, I would think flashing lights and gates? Don't think they need to redesign the road. Surprised the ICC filings aren't online, especially related to Penn Central

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by Sir Ray » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:17 am

Looking back over the 8 pages (so far) of this thread, I didn't see a Google Maps link (I did see papabarn's historical map post from last year, which was cool).
So, starting what I presume would be the connection with CSX in East Brookfield, I followed a fairly clear ROW North West and then North, and finally West to the Quabaug facility in North Brookfield, I didn't really see any promising customers (there may be one on East Brookfield Rd - Chase Precast according to a sign visible in Google Streetview) - looks like the rail unloading equipment still exists. There's a solar farm on Orchard Rd, maybe they plan to haul electrons in DOT-111 tankcars, I dunno.
I'm not sure how the revived branch would reach Quabaug Corp (or how it ever did in the first place - that brick building at where School St forks off Elm St. and which appears to sit right on the ROW looks a lot older than the Penn Central era). Does Quabaug even need materials in rail quantities?
I can sort of see how they could thread the track back across the W. Main (Rte 9)/N.Brookfield Rd intersection with minimal disruption, but gating and lights would be interesting to see.
I guess I am not a forward enough thinker to see what purpose this branch revival would serve.

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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:42 am

Sir Ray wrote:Looking back over the 8 pages (so far) of this thread, I didn't see a Google Maps link (I did see papabarn's historical map post from last year, which was cool).
So, starting what I presume would be the connection with CSX in East Brookfield, I followed a fairly clear ROW North West and then North, and finally West to the Quabaug facility in North Brookfield, I didn't really see any promising customers (there may be one on East Brookfield Rd - Chase Precast according to a sign visible in Google Streetview) - looks like the rail unloading equipment still exists. There's a solar farm on Orchard Rd, maybe they plan to haul electrons in DOT-111 tankcars, I dunno.
I'm not sure how the revived branch would reach Quabaug Corp (or how it ever did in the first place - that brick building at where School St forks off Elm St. and which appears to sit right on the ROW looks a lot older than the Penn Central era). Does Quabaug even need materials in rail quantities?
I can sort of see how they could thread the track back across the W. Main (Rte 9)/N.Brookfield Rd intersection with minimal disruption, but gating and lights would be interesting to see.
I guess I am not a forward enough thinker to see what purpose this branch revival would serve.
Quabaug's old siding was right in front of the building set back a few feet from the street, on what's currently the demolished property next door.


Assuming this operation is going to be more about transloading than on-line customers (likely since that's what Mass Central and Grafton & Upton are gearing themselves around), a yard facility with convenient road access is all they'll really need. And there's plenty of that to be had. It'll be a more marginal operation than MCER and GURR for sure, but there's at least a locally viable logic to that business plan.

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BandA
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Re: North Brookfield RR

Post by BandA » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:48 am

Sir Ray wrote:Looking back over the 8 pages (so far) of this thread, I didn't see a Google Maps link (I did see papabarn's historical map post from last year, which was cool).
So, starting what I presume would be the connection with CSX in East Brookfield, I followed a fairly clear ROW North West and then North, and finally West to the Quabaug facility in North Brookfield, I didn't really see any promising customers (there may be one on East Brookfield Rd - Chase Precast according to a sign visible in Google Streetview) - looks like the rail unloading equipment still exists. There's a solar farm on Orchard Rd, maybe they plan to haul electrons in DOT-111 tankcars, I dunno.
I'm not sure how the revived branch would reach Quabaug Corp (or how it ever did in the first place - that brick building at where School St forks off Elm St. and which appears to sit right on the ROW looks a lot older than the Penn Central era). Does Quabaug even need materials in rail quantities?
I can sort of see how they could thread the track back across the W. Main (Rte 9)/N.Brookfield Rd intersection with minimal disruption, but gating and lights would be interesting to see.
I guess I am not a forward enough thinker to see what purpose this branch revival would serve.
In order for this shortline to be successful it would need enough customers. The red brick building is the station. I don't know what it is being used for if anything. It appears to be in good condition. In order to reach Quabog/Vibram it would have to cut across School Street, and either cut across the lawn of the new police station or go behind. Quabog hasn't said whether they are interested in rail service. They are in an industry that was traditionally rail served, however they have survived 40 years or so without rail service. The apple orchard has recently been planting solar panels instead of new apple trees, which makes me sad. I don't see them sending out unit trains of apples behind a candy-apple red locomotive. Much of the line is on or near good roads posted as high as 55MPH - assuming supplies come in by rail & go out by truck or visa-versa, and employees have to arrive by car. However, the whole area is about half an hour from interstates.

The former Chase Precast is a great site for something rail-related. That site is either unused or underused presently.

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