Official Cape Cod Central Discussion

[Clean Cab]

Wooden ties can be used on FRA Class 6 track (up to 90 MPH).

[fl9m2004]

And what about concrete ties
Didn't know wodden ties could handle that much pressure of a speeding train

[Clean Cab]

Speeds on concrete ties in the US are limited to 150 MPH. The Amtrak Shoreline is 99% concrete ties and that is where the Acela trainsets do 150 MPH, for only about 10 miles though.

[fl9m2004]

Thank you for telling me
I've been on the acela 5 times in the last 2 years
And I can tell you that going 150mph is really smooth and comfortable
Also didn't know it is 99 percent conrete ties between New Haven-Boston
Thought it was all

[BenH]

CWR eliminates continuity problems for signal systems. That's why every passenger line has abandoned stick rail in favor of CWR. Can you imagine how many bond wires there are in just one mile of track? If just a single bond wire breaks, the wayside and cab signal system will not work, causing incredible delays. Although I do agree that 107 rail is a good size and weight, the fact is that no type of rail lasts forever. As I said before, most of the stick rail on the Cape dates from the late 1930's to the 1940's. One important factor is the FRA will not allow passenger trains to travel as fast on stick rail as versus CWR. Especially stick rail that is over 70 years old. Currently the top speed anywhere on the Cape is 30 MPH. Even in the New Haven Railroad days the top speed was 50 MPH and after the tracks were rehabbed for the Amtrak service, speeds never got above 40 MPH. Track speeds could be raised to 60 MPH in some spots with CWR. The one thing that has me worried about the Cape Flyer is the very long amount of time it takes to go from Boston to Hyannis (2 1/2 hours). I know some people who were excited about using the trains that are having second thoughts due to the length of the trip. It is reasons like these that I do hope that the state will commit to replacing the stick rail with CWR sooner rather than later.

Travel time from Boston to Hyannis is 2 hours and 38 minutes on Friday nights.
All other runs are "just" 2 hours and 18 minutes northbound and 2 hours and 15 minutes southbound.

I too am concerned about the CapeFLYER's travel time between Boston and Hyannis -- in particular the 2 hour and 38 minute run to Hyannis on Friday nights. Sure, its better than sitting in traffic -- but for many people this may be too long to sit on a train.

In 1957 the New Haven RR's train "The Cranberry" was scheduled to make the run from Boston to Hyannis in 1 hour and 44 minutes -- with intermediate stops in Wareham, Onset, Buzzards Bay, Sandwich, West Barnstable and Yarmouth. (REF: http://www.scribd.com/doc/124812417/195 ... w-Haven-RR )

My sense is that 2 hours end-to-end is the magic number. The goal should be to add stops in Wareham, Sandwich and West Barnstable AND get the train to Hyannis in just under two hours. This clearly should be possible since the New Haven was able to do this back in the 50s. Of course this is easier said than done.

For the short term they just need focus on a successful first year and then the rest will come over time.

[Clean Cab]

Don't forget the schedule assumes there will be no delay in crossing the canal. It is not that unusual for trains to be held for canal traffic for up to half an hour if not longer!!!

[boatsmate]

Actually Canal traffic will be Stopped for scheduled Train traffic. Scheduled lowering's take priority over vessel traffic at all train bridges in the US. only scheduled trains though. unscheduled trains like freight must wait if traffic is already committed to the transit.

In regards to the schedule, for the first year it Is better to be early and or on time and be able to adjust the schedule later than to be late all the time because of unforeseen problems. get the run down first and then adjust the schedule tighter when you know the actual running times.

[KEN PATRICK]

i don't believe scheduled rail traffic has priority over committed marine transits. too many variables on the marine side to support such a contention. tide/wind/vessel size will probably result in some trains holding for a vessel already in the canal.ken patrick

[Clean Cab]

Marine traffic has the priority. When the Amtrak's were running, they would routinely get held for boat traffic. In fact the very first Amtrak from Washington DC to Hyannis was held for almost an hour for canal traffic. I know, I was waiting in Hyannis for that first train and it arrived 2 hours late early in the AM of July 4, 1986.

[boatsmate]

I am speaking from experience as a Mariner, I don't know what things where like back in 86 when Amtrak crossed, I know now that scheduled passenger trains get precedence over marine traffic, and the canal controller's won't let a regulated vessel in the canal if a train is scheduled to arrive at a certain time. the other thing to think about is that this is the MBTA they operate different from Amtrak, all of their bridges ( yes I know this one is owned by the Corps) open around the trains schedule not the boats...... and I have heard Canal Control tell tugs that they have a train due at a certain time and they may have to wait to enter till the bridge goes back up. Of course if the train is extremely late (like Amtrak had a tendency to be, over 45 mins ) it becomes an unscheduled crossing and then the train has to wait if there is a vessel in the area that can't slow down or hold position So we will have to wait to see what happens. I highly doubt that this will be the case with these trains. the T runs a tight ship when it comes to being on time.

Capt Bill

[fl9m2004]

I'm glad that the t runs a pretty good schedule
It's the same with metro north and walk bridge
Where the person in New York will radio the bridge operator and tell him when the next window of trains is
So that way the bridge operator will give the information to the mariners sailing

[Clean Cab]

I am speaking from experience as a Mariner, I don't know what things where like back in 86 when Amtrak crossed, I know now that scheduled passenger trains get precedence over marine traffic, and the canal controller's won't let a regulated vessel in the canal if a train is scheduled to arrive at a certain time. the other thing to think about is that this is the MBTA they operate different from Amtrak, all of their bridges ( yes I know this one is owned by the Corps) open around the trains schedule not the boats...... and I have heard Canal Control tell tugs that they have a train due at a certain time and they may have to wait to enter till the bridge goes back up. Of course if the train is extremely late (like Amtrak had a tendency to be, over 45 mins ) it becomes an unscheduled crossing and then the train has to wait if there is a vessel in the area that can't slow down or hold position So we will have to wait to see what happens. I highly doubt that this will be the case with these trains. the T runs a tight ship when it comes to being on time.

Capt Bill

I hope you are right. We haven't had any regularly scheduled train to cross the canal since the last Amtrak left in September 1996.

[fl9m2004]

I remember seeing the conductor from the cape codder
He's one of the conductors for Cape Cod Central
A really nice guy
I hope the train between Hyannis and Boston goes well
Hopefully one day I'll get to ride it
By the way why did Amtrak discontinue the cape codder
Imagine if Amtrak and MBTA ran a joint train Amtrak train with MBTA crews

[Cosmo]

i don't believe scheduled rail traffic has priority over committed marine transits. too many variables on the marine side to support such a contention. tide/wind/vessel size will probably result in some trains holding for a vessel already in the canal.ken patrick

Well, it does. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it not so.
Even nuclear powered Naval vessels have to schedule their departures from SUBASE Groton around scheduled AMTRAK trains to/thru New London.

[Clean Cab]

I remember seeing the conductor from the cape codder
He's one of the conductors for Cape Cod Central
A really nice guy
I hope the train between Hyannis and Boston goes well
Hopefully one day I'll get to ride it
By the way why did Amtrak discontinue the cape codder
Imagine if Amtrak and MBTA ran a joint train Amtrak train with MBTA crews

The trains were funded by the State of Massachusetts in an agreement with Amtrak that required the state to cover any losses and a percentage of the operating costs. The train crews were all Amtrak employees that were qualified out of Boston. The funding subsidy was not renewed in 1996 and therefore the trains stopped running. Ridership on the trains had been declining and the trains that at one time were running from Washington DC to Hyannis 4 times (one train from DC to Hyannis on Friday, another train to Hyannis from NY on Saturday, one train back to NY/DC on Saturday and the last train back to NY on Sunday afternoon) between Friday and Sunday edventually dwindled down to a three car one engine push-pull shutlle from Providence to Hyannis on Friday and Sundays only making only one round trip. Another factor was the deteriorating conditions of the tracks on the Cape which created lower operating speeds. The state was faced with spending a massive amount of money on the tracks, and fund the trains that very few people were riding. Since that time, there had been no plans to renew the service until now.