Portland Maine Passenger Stations

[Hamhock]

Wow, I love the visual rendering of the schedules; it really shows where the gaps would remain. Now I want 3 trainsets and 10 round-trips!

[Cowford]

GO'K, I wasn't considering an additional RT in the total cost equation, only the fact that running faster is more expensive for fuel, equipment, and track.

Once you have the schedule "string board" set up (I just made this one on PPT), it's quite easy to move around the EB and WB movements to see how they can fit. Obviously, it doesn't take into consideration intermediate stops/ route speed variances, track occupancy/slot restrictions on/at MBTA/N Station, etc. but it's a cool little tool to play around with and well illustrates the challenges facing NNEPRA in optimizing their schedule to balance trainset cost/utilization and time-based passenger demand. A third rush hour (or pre-rush) train is just impossible without a third train set... and it hit me when doing this that the service only provides one inbound rush hour train, when they could theoretically offer two.

[gokeefe]

Cowford,

I agree. I'm acutally a little surprised by the fact that they are running only one inbound morning rush hour train. There doesn't seem to be any obvious reason for it either. The only reason I could guess would be track capacity restrictions because of MBTA service.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to try and hit the peak hours of travel with two trains instead of one.

[Hamhock]

Cowford,

I agree. I'm acutally a little surprised by the fact that they are running only one inbound morning rush hour train. There doesn't seem to be any obvious reason for it either. The only reason I could guess would be track capacity restrictions because of MBTA service.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to try and hit the peak hours of travel with two trains instead of one.

I concur with both of you; they should be attempting to hit all possible combinations of "9am/10am to 5pm/6pm" workers.

[gokeefe]

I'm going to post a question about this in the Amtrak Downeaster thread.

[Froggie]

Looks like NNEPRA managed to reschedule that meeting:

Authority will study downtown train depot

The people in charge of the Amtrak Downeaster plan to take the next year to figure out where the train service is headed.

The Northern New England Passenger Rail Authority expects to begin a study this spring of proposals to relocate the Portland train station, shorten trip lengths and add more daily runs between Brunswick, Portland and Boston and others.

Here's what it says about the possible locations:

City Councilor David Marshall said there are benefits to both of the two likeliest Commercial Street sites -- just west of the bridge, near the International Marine Terminal; or at the end of Center Street, near the Portland Fish Pier.

[gokeefe]

There's actually some fairly big news in this piece. I'll address the station issues here and the track improvements in the "Official Amtrak Downeaster Thread" (Amtrak Forum) and the "Downeaster-related trackwork and upgrades" thread (Pan Am Railways Forum).

While development of the Beach & W. Commercial Street (International Marine Terminal) location is very obvious in terms of available land, existing track (likely still technically 'in-service'), the newly rehabilitated wye at Yard 8 and the presence of the NNEPRA headquarters across the street, the Center Street location is very interesting. I had never taken it seriously until I noticed in this article that the location continues to surface in these discussions. Sometimes when discussing funding proposals certain ideas are given at least an 'airing' to demonstrate the quality of the favored location. Occasionally there are even other 'factions' either within or outside an organization that will encourage consideration of alternative courses of action for their own reasons.

Intrigued by the continued attention being given to the Center Street location I went to Google Maps and reviewed the imagery of the location from the tracks at the International Marine Terminal all the way through to Center Street. First to my surprise the right of way is intact through Center Street. Obviously it is very close to the road and probably would be considered 'street-running' by most as the right of way is at-grade with the street. Most importantly the right of way is not severed by the Casco Bay Bridge (contrary to my impression). In fact there is still track in place underneath and through the bridge. Second, I didn't realize just how far down Commerical Street the Center Street location actually is (it's almost at DeMillo's). While having the Downeaster at the International Marine Terminal is an interesting proposal that I still think would add riders, in particular casual riders, the Center Street location holds even more promise for the train placing it squarely downtown in Portland and making it a centerpiece of the Old Port. There is also a sizeable parking lot at Commericial & Center Streets that would be perfect for use by rail passengers. The Center Street location also makes boardings by cruise ship passengers realistic in the future (if not initially due to schedule issues). If built I believe NNEPRA is correct in implying that a Commercial Street location (at either site) would have an immediate impact on leisure travel from Boston.

It is amazing to think that there is any potential at all for service restoration to the former-MEC tracks along Commercial Street. If ever there was a right-of-way that was 'lost and gone forever' this one would have been pretty high on my list perhaps exceeded only by the two-footers and the MEC Dover-Foxcroft Branch. Once again, just as with the Mountain Division, long dormant right of ways are candidates for service restorations that even a few year ago would have been beyond unthinkable.

While I have no way of knowing which site NNEPRA favors my analysis at this time is that they are serious about the Center Street location and are at a minimum considering it along with West Commercial Street. There are certain inherent advantages at Center Street which they cannot replicate at West Commercial Street. Considering their primary goal is to make the station accessible to pedestrians I am beginning to think Center Street may be foremost in their mind with West Commercial Street a workable alternative if they cannot get the Center Street location approved. Simply Stunning.

[Hamhock]

You know, I'd love to see the station at Center Street, but then I think about some moron backing out of Becky's Diner and onto the tracks, and even at 5MPH it'd be *CRUNCH*.

[gokeefe]

I agree, safety concerns would be one of the few issues that might dissuade NNEPRA or the City of Portland from a station at Center & Commercial Street.

I don't know whether or not these could be mitigated without serious impact to the affected businesses. That notwithstanding, "a picture is [still] worth a thousand words." Nothing would communicate 'downtown arrival' like images of Amtrak trains 'street running' in the Old Port.

Its still shocking that we are even discussing this but I would maintain all the indicators are there if you read the article with a careful and critical eye. Since this thread has a historical focus I'll go ahead and say that this plan would be a 'throwback' beyond just Union Station, it would give trains a prominence in Portland not seen since the roaring '20s (90 years). Given how often the Downeaster gets on TV this would be a windfall of free exposure for the Old Port.

A new passenger station at Center & Commercial Street is a daring proposal on par with the grandest of visions for development ever seen in Portland.

[markhb]

Regarding either of the two Commercial St. relocation plans, my big concern remains the waterfront factor: it's a non-marine usage, and therefore putting it on the harbor side of Commercial Street will undoubtedly set off a political firestorm, regardless of the sense of the proposal itself. That's especially true if we look at the Yard 1 location (near the Casco Bay Bridge) and its potential for development after the train arrives.

[gokeefe]

Mark,

Do you feel that the previous presence of the railroad would mitigate this?

(Even if passenger operations have never occurred on these tracks previously)

[piker]

I don't know Portland but this is good to see the thought going into this. I'm curious about the cruse ship aspect. Only been on one of those big ones once and while I probably won't do that much it was nice to travel on the ocean and it was also interesting to see how this huge surge of tourists in the various ports was managed. Its mostly a crowd control cattle drive with big lines, armies of mini busses and crazy fast drivers as you go to zipline or swim with the dolphins or whatever As Cowford points out there is only 7 to 9 hours available to amuse and shake down the newest form of from aways. I checked with Cruises to go http://www.vacationstogo.com/ticker.cfm?r=0&v=188 and counted at least 40 visits to Portland of large 2000-3500 cap vessels between the middle of June and the end of October on this one site. Assuming 1/2 get off in Portland that gives you a 1000 to 1800 surge of tourists on top of the background of tourists arriving by other means. A train station near the pier is a compelling solution to moving and spreading out your 40 to 70 thousand new tourists as I can see the capacity of the downtown being a little limited. So lets back into this rail discussion with a general question putting aside the obvious who and with what question for a moment. At what fare point and capacity does it make financial sense to haul by rail the shoppers to Freeport and the sightseers up the Mountain division or up the coast within the time requirements of the cruise line? How far could they get, shop,eat and return? This almost seems like a freight question.

[Watchman318]

Looks like there might be something on WMTW tonight at 6:00 about NNEPRA and the station location.

"Remember, folks, you heard it here first." (Meaning this thread, and mention of relocating the station.)

And this is my opportunity to say, if somebody wants to throw five or six figure$ at "$tudie$" about some of this stuff, they should give the money to gokeefe, markhb, and some of the other regular contributors to this thread. Heck, even Cowford, at least for his cool PPT graphic.
You guys have put some serious thought into all of this. Keep up the good work.

[Cowford]

Simply stunning.

I couldn't say it better myself... but I don't think we share the same meaning! Don't break out the brass bands quite yet. No. 1: Street running isn't quaint; it's dangerous. Railroads, pedestrians and automobiles don't mix. Putting the train at Center Street will not only put moving (and possibly standing) trains on Commercial Street, it will also increase foot and vehicular traffic on the same flipping street. Visit Jack London Square in Oakland to see what a great idea this would be. No. 2: Considering that they'd need to take over a 40-50ft x 700ft swath for the terminal tracks and platform, I'm assuming that they'd try to diverge off of Commercial Street at Wright's Wharf or Brown's Wharf. Where does the displaced fish industry go? No. 3: As much as foamers may like 'em, diesel engines are loud and emit smelly fumes. The present location is much better situated to avoid neighbor concerns. Where you gonna park those trains at night, by the way? No. 4: This stuff about cruise traffic really is rainbows and lollipops on so many levels. As I earlier posted, Portland gets regular cruise ship calls TWO MONTHS PER YEAR (June, July, and August only have one call each), each calling for about eight hours. Please... PLEASE... provide a little detail on how this service could even be offered. I posted a string chart - use that to figure out how trains could operate... and how you'd justify getting equipment for a two month period. No. 5: If just the study is approaching $1M, how much is this going to cost? Waddathink? $10-15M? Best I can recall, about 18,000 out-of-staters take the train to Portland. So how much is this going to push up inbound ridership?

[Dick H]

The funding won't be there for any new station in the forseeable future.
In case you missed it, there are new "gangs" in Augusta and Washington.
IMO, we will be lucky to keep the existing service and run to Brunswick.