Manchester-Lawrence still in use (Freight Discussion)?

[b&m 1566]

Check this page out. Abandonment list of the M&L branch; noted on October 3, 2003. http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422 ... -13147.htm

This is what I know.
1. Through freight ended in 1984 with the Windham, Derry section being abandoned by Guilford. Service from Windham/Salem town line to Old Rockingham Rd. discontinued as well. Am I correct on this?
2. Section from Londonderry to Manchester abandoned at a later date; does anybody know when this was abandoned? also abandoning at the same time the remaining stub of the Manchester Portsmonth branch.
3. Service discontinued from Old Rockingham Rd. to Main St. (Salem Depot) in December 1993 after lumber company closed. Am I correct on this?
4. 1997 Guilford files for Abandonment of the M&L in Salem, NH. Am I correct on this?
5. Service discontinued from Main St. to Kelly Rd. (to make way for the entrance to Best Buy and plaza.) in March of 1999. Tracks removed from Hapog Rd. to Kelly Rd.; also removing the main and passing track up by the race track later that summer. Guilford now running push/pull mode into Salem with the absents of a run around track. Am I correct on this?
6. Sometime in 2000 abandonment granted by the transportation board. Am I correct on this?
7. June 2001 Guilford abandons Salem, NH and discontinues service in the city of Methuen. Most of the track from Hampshire Rd. to Kelly road removed a month or two after last train departs Salem. Am I correct on this?
8. Sometime in 2003 Guilford discontinues service of the M&L branch in the city of Lawrence. Am I correct on this?

[GP40MC 1116]

This photo taken by the MBTA Rail Forum Moderator <redacted> tells a great tale!

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... y=sery2831

[l008com]

Anyone have any pics of the M&L through Derry? Newish ones, meaning maybe last 10 years or so of service? I've been driving through derry my whole life, and though I always knew where the tracks were, I don't ever remember them being in use. But i was 4 when they were abandoned so that explains why. I'd be so thrilled if this line came back into use one day.

[Rockingham Racer]

8. Sometime in 2003 Guilford discontinues service of the M&L branch in the city of Lawrence. Am I correct on this?

In reading the document, I noticed it said that since this is a discontinuance notice, not an abandonment notice, bike paths and other public use is not appropriate, or words to that effect. If so, how come Salem is thinking of a bike path?

[b&m 1566]

I know for a fact that Guilford filed for Abandonment for the track in the town of Salem, NH. Not sure what the exact year they did file but I was leading more towards 1997; that's why I asked if I was correct on that. I heard word that abandonment was granted in 2000 but I have never seen it in writing. In either case Pan Am (then Guilford) made it quite apparent that they were not going to service Salem anymore regardless of the abandonment; which might be the case for why they were so quick to remove most of the rail in Salem just weeks after they ended service. Also I think the rail banking was more directed to the line from Lawrence to the state line. Pan Am doesn't own the tracks, therefore they can't abandoned them; they can only file for a discontinuance; which is how I under stood it on that website. The MBTA owns the M&L branch from the wye in Lawrence to the state line. Whether or not Pan Am still owns the ROW in Salem still remains to be told. I know the bike path can't be built if it’s under Pan Am owner ship still.

[Rockingham Racer]

That makes sense to me. Didn't know, though, the MBCR owned up to the state line, which would be about Hampshire Road, where once upon a time, there was actually a wig-wag!

[GP40MC 1116]

No..No.... MBTA owned it, not MBCR (oh crap I sound like somebody else)

I just miss the Amtrak CR opperating days

[gunsanplanes]

the station at windam just received a caboose for display.
if i do this right, these are links to pics of the move.

scratch that idea....too many pics/links. here is the main link, most pics are right on the main page, with a secondary link to follow for more pics.

http://www.windhamrailtrail.org/

[Jeff Smith]

At a member's request, I split this out from the NH Commuter Rail topic to discuss freight usage. I'm not sure what other posts in the Commuter Rail thread may be applicable to freight. If you feel a post at that topic belongs in here, use the report function and in remarks note that it belongs here.

This is the commuter rail topic: New Hampshire Commuter Rail Discussion

[Jackinbox1]

Oooooh boy, I can already sense NHV and F-Line to Dudley breathing down my neck.

Yes, I am the user who asked Jeff if he could move this here, and I respect him for that. F-Line, NHV, you don't think that freight will EVER return on this corridor. But I do. and i feel like other people who have the same thought should have a place to discuss such a topic.

[jaymac]

Jackinthebox1-
As my user name suggests, I am neither of the people you can already sense breathing down your neck. You did get what you wanted. Enjoy that in a joyful and -- if possible -- non-confrontational way.
As your signature suggests, you do seem to have both a combative and scatalogical outlook on your digital dealings with others.

(Mods: If I have exceeded the limits of this board, please feel free to do as you see fit.)

[Jackinbox1]

Jackinthebox1-
As my user name suggests, I am neither of the people you can already sense breathing down your neck. You did get what you wanted. Enjoy that in a joyful and -- if possible -- non-confrontational way.
As your signature suggests, you do seem to have both a combative and scatalogical outlook on your digital dealings with others.

(Mods: If I have exceeded the limits of this board, please feel free to do as you see fit.)

1. I searched up Scatological, and i got this "The study and analysis of feces" ???\
2. I asked to make this for the direct reason of having a nonf-confrontal way to talk about this.
3. Eh, i just sort of found it a funny quote to use. I couldn't really think of anything else.

[Jeff Smith]

Oooooh boy, I can already sense NHV and F-Line to Dudley breathing down my neck.

Yes, I am the user who asked Jeff if he could move this here, and I respect him for that. F-Line, NHV, you don't think that freight will EVER return on this corridor. But I do. and i feel like other people who have the same thought should have a place to discuss such a topic.

Be careful what you wish for !

[NHV 669]

For my own amusement I ask a few final questions on the matter:

A) it is more than merely my opinion that freight won't return, it is a conclusion I have reached based on several observations, merely the following:

-you need tracks to run freight on, I think that's how it works.... Who's going to pay to put those back in? Especially the part where they run right onto airport property? No fool in a million years is going to agree to fund a tunnel for a rail line that is already dead due to a lack of freight. The state isn't going to fund "studies" on that, when they already have an active line serving the Manchester area, and *gasp* an active line that already goes through Lawrence. If there was hope, the fact that PAR abandoned even the minimal stub in Lawrence LESS THAN A YEAR ago should clue you in (a fact already mentioned SEVERAL times)

B) who is going to operate this fantasy line? If, and I say if, because there are no tracks, there were to be an operator, it isn't going to be PAR. Who is going to take an annual loss to operate a land-locked line between two active ones, without any kind of carload-sustainable freight? Especially when the bookend lines have the same operator.

C) which brings me to my last question prompted by the end of the above: who is this line going to serve? Every single business you mentioned lacks the volume needed to sustain profitable carload levels, at a level that would either sustain the RR or offer a cheaper alternative to trucking for the customer. F-line touched on this, not because he "hates Windham" or "screw the M&L", but because it's the honest truth.

The word of a NHDOT agent is not the word of the state legislature, nor is it that of a RR company executive. Government committees and councils write proposals all the time discussing uses/reuses for ancient infrastructure, that's kind of what we pay them to do. Proposals are exactly that, ideas. You need to slow down, wipe some of that foam away, and realize that ideas are not Legal binding contracts


no neck breathing here, I hate when people do that

[Jackinbox1]

1. The line would probably never be resuscitated for simply freight. Commuter does have a chance, but maybe in about 10-15 years or so.

2. Most likely Pan Am, nothing else would. If You have one industry on a spur (Eastern Packaging), then you can expect Pan Am isn't going to be happy about maintenance (go search up some of Guilford/ Pan Am branch lines, track isn't the best condition.) But when you have multiple, they might reconsider.

3. I actually had to ask my NHDOT friend here. He gave me the whole rundown about how railroads need carloads to sustain business and whatnot. Then he said combine all the industry along the line, and you have a pretty good carload going on, if you include the fact that Salem said they would zone more industry when CR possibly returns. NHRRA had that idea too, and so far, none of the industry they talked about back in 2008 has moved an inch so far.