Indianapolis

[zwsplac]

I was looking at the topo maps of Indianapolis on the terraserver webpages, and I am utterly confused at the staggering array of tracks in Indianapolis! I thought I had a pretty good idea of what the railroad scene looked like, and while many of the lines shown are probably abandoned, I am interested in finding out more about them. Can anyone suggest a good online or book form railroad maps for Indy? Thanks in advance!

[Throttle_JCKY]

There aren't any good just Indy online sources that I know of, but there are a few sites out there.

Indianapolis Railfan site
http://members.iquest.net/~tbonsett/rfipage.html

East Central Indiana
http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm

The biggest thing with Indy is the former Conrail/NYC now CSX Indianapolis Line from the east, then the St. Louis Line from the west. That is the biggest player. Avon yard is located as the name implies, west of Indy near Avon.
Conrail also had the Transfer and Hawthorn Yards, Transfer being on the west side of downtown, and Hawthorn being east of downtown on the old PRR mainline. Both were PRR yards, with Avon coming from the NYC, coming under full growth with the PC.
The Indiana Railroad runs the old IC from downtown to Illinois
The Indiana Southern operates the former PRR out of the southwest side of Indy.
The Lousville and Indiana operates the former PRR from downtown to Lousiville.

I never worked out of Indy, so I can't tell you much about operations.
CSX had the former B&O in from Cincy/Hamilton, this is used by Amtrak too.
The other is the former I&F leaving the old PRR at Davis and heading north, flying over top the NYC mainline, with full connector tracks, then the line splits just north of that at Clearmont, the Amtrak uses the line that heads to Crawfordsville, and CSX still uses the other line to Frankfort.

The old Monon is gone, and the former NKP IMC line is used by the Fair train and museum located north of Noblesville.
So basically the run down of abandon lines
PRR from Hawthorn yards east is gone, both freight and passenger mainlines.
The belt track the runs from the northeast side to the north west side around the south side of town.
The old NYC Springfield line is gone just outside of town, currently used as an industrial lead.
The former NYC mainline to Cincinnati is still in use, CSX has it and RA has rights over it. Amtrak uses what is left of the Beech Grove facility on the southeast side of town.
The L&I comes up the former PRR line from Louisville and connects in to the NYC Indianapolis line at IU, which is at the union station.

There are more, hopefully someone else can fill it in, gotta run.

[kr4bd]

Attn: Throttle_JCKY

You said...

"The belt track the runs from the northeast side to the north west side around the south side of town."

When did the IURR (Beltline) get ripped up. I used to live in the Indy area (1968-1973) just south of Clermont. I know the extremes of this line on the Westside and Northeast side were abandoned but somehow missed the Southside getting ripped up, too. I must admit, my visits to Indy are infrequent these days.

A few other abandonments I remember (mostly on the Westside)...

The section of the NYC (P&E) from Speedway to Clermont was abandoned in the 1960's. When I first moved there, they used that stretch to store old NYC boxcars for years letting them rust away. Eventually, they pulled them out from the jungle that had grown around them and ripped up the track (probably about 6 miles or so in length). This was parallel to US136 (Crawfordsville Rd.)

The NYC line out of the NW side of town was ripped out from about 86th Street to Lafayette, IN. This was once a mainline for NYC to Chicago from Indy. That probably happened in the 1960's. In later years, the track south of 86th St. going back into town was still there, serving local shippers. That may be gone now as it has been years since I have been there.

The B&O (later CSX) line west out of Indy was ripped up west of Speedway, IN about 15 years ago. I couldn't figure that out because they seemed to use that line fairly heavily and even had installed welded rail and new crossing signals just a few years prior to ripping it all up.

Those are my memories of Indy to add to this discussion.

Overall, I think Throttle_JCKY's report is mostly accurate.

[CHomko]

For all Indiana RR abandonments, you can refer to the INDOT website listing located here: http://www.in.gov/dot/div/multimodal/ra ... nments.pdf. It lists all abandonments in the state of Indiana and the pending ones. Not sure how often it is updated. For the most recent filings for abandonment refer to the STB website located here: http://www.stb.dot.gov/

[Throttle_JCKY]

The belt line is still intact around the south side of town. It basically forms a U shape around Indy.

The bad thing about the State of Indiana Intermod site, the abandonments are that accurate in a current sense. What I mean is, look at the more recent abandonments, such as the CSX Malden-North Judson. This shows it as being abandoned, but in reality it has been sold, and CSX was denied their abandonment.
So take it for what its worth.

[MR77100]

"The NYC(P&E) was abandoned in the 1960's."
Are you sure it was that long ago? On a 1979 map, it shows the line as still being there. Then again, the map could be inaccurate. Is the Speedway-Indy segment still there? I guess Amtrak now switches onto the I&F line at Clermont and takes that to Ben Davis?

"The NYC line to Lafayette was abandoned in the 1960's"
I'm sure this line was intact until 1976. A 1983 issue of Passenger Train Journal about Indy-Cincy corridors shows this line as being used by Amtrak for the James Whitcomb Riley and the Floridian. Amtrak was kicked off the line in October 1973, and the segment between Whitestown and Zionsville was abandoned in 1976. The Zionsville lead was cut back to the I-465 overpass in 1984, where it terminates today. I was there in 2002. What exactly was the Zionsville lead left in place for? The Whitestown-Lafayette segment was abandoned by Conrail in August, 1985, but I don't think the tracks were torn up until several years later.

The NYC Springfield line stops at N. Post Road east of Indy. When was this line cut back? It used to stop at Maxwell. The Monon line was abandoned in 1987 after Indiana Hi-Rail gave up on the lease. Are there any towers still standing in the city?

[Throttle_JCKY]

Amtrak comes around at Clermont, then heads down the I&F to "Davis" where it runs down the PRR St. Louis Line to downtown and Union Station. Since there isn't any connections in the northeast and southeast at MY, the PC did spend money as well as Conrail on keeping that section in tip top shape.

[kr4bd]

re:
=====================
The NYC(P&E) was abandoned in the 1960's."
Are you sure it was that long ago? On a 1979 map, it shows the line as still being there. Then again, the map could be inaccurate. Is the Speedway-Indy segment still there?
=====================

I lived in this area from 1968-73 and, after that, came back frequently to visit family in that area. The P&E terminated in 1968 at Cunningham Road in Speedway at a lumber yard, which was still receiving service. The track remained in-place west of the the lumber yard to Clermont, but was NOT used for through traffic. This single track from the lumber yard at the West edge of Speedway to Rte 134 (Girls School Road) in Wayne Township was used for permanent storage of old, mostly green NYC boxcars which just sat there, rusting, for many years. In the 1970's, service to the lumber yard ended and the track was removed west of the 16th Street Crossing in Downtown Speedway to where it intersected with the old Pennsylvania line just East of Clermont. All the stored cars between the lumber yard and Girls School Road were pulled out at this time. For years after this, P&E track ended right at 16th Street by the Indy 500 race track. In more recent times (probably 1990-ish), the track was pulled up east of there toward Indianapolis. I am sure the dates I mention are not totally accurate I am sure the information is correct.

Tom

[kr4bd]

To MR77100

RE:

===============
"The NYC line to Lafayette was abandoned in the 1960's"
I'm sure this line was intact until 1976. A 1983 issue of Passenger Train Journal about Indy-Cincy corridors shows this line as being used by Amtrak for the James Whitcomb Riley and the Floridian. Amtrak was kicked off the line in October 1973, and the segment between Whitestown and Zionsville was abandoned in 1976. The Zionsville lead was cut back to the I-465 overpass in 1984, where it terminates today. I was there in 2002. What exactly was the Zionsville lead left in place for? The Whitestown-Lafayette segment was abandoned by Conrail in August, 1985, but I don't think the tracks were torn up until several years later.
===============

You are right about the dates on this. In 1970, I was working in Frankfort, IN (an interest railfan site in itself) and commuted daily from the westside of Indy. This NYC line was, indeed intact and used, to at least Lebanon at that time, but was pretty over-run with weeds, etc., with little traffic that I recall, especially northwest out of Lebanon. I do recall Amtrak using this for a while, but don't remember the dates. I do recollect, however, that it sat there for many years in the 1970's between Lebanon and Lafayette before it got pulled up. I believe the Zionsville lead was used to service a Dow Chemical plant but was latter pulled up back to the county line at I-465 as you mention. Has it not been further cut back to 86th Street, or even farther south, today? I have not been in that area for years so can't say for sure. I do believe that from Zionsville to Lafayette, service on this line pretty much ended sometime in the 1970's and then it just sat there for years before being ripped up. Can anyone in the Lebanon area shed any light on this?

Tom

[MR77100]

My father and I followed the Big Four south of Lafayette to Lebanon in April, 1987 and the line was still there, but was overgrown along with the crossings being paved over. I remember seeing an abandonment notice on this line in the August 1985 Passenger Train Journal. I can recall in 2002 looking off the I-465 overpass and seeing tank cars stored down there, so there mst some kind of chemical industry around. Does anyone know what it is?

[HoosierSubFan]

For all of you inquiring about certain items in Indy, I can help some.

One tower still stands in the city. That is I.U. Int. (Indianapolis Union Interlocking) It is downtown at the east end of the Union Station Trainshed. It was removed from service in April 1998.

The ex-NYC line through Zionsville ends at about 87th St. at an old marathon refinery. The refiniery was razed in the late 1990's and all that's left are storage tanks. Once the tanks are depleted, the tracks will be removed further south to the next customer. I do believe that is near 75th street.

For references on abandonements, you can check out Railroads of Indiana (Indiana University Press; 1997)
it may not have track removal dates, but gives a detailed listing by year/railroad/mileage/towns as to when tracks were, at the very least, removed from active service.

Hope this helps......

"HoosierSubFan"
Chris Thomspon
Pres. Railfans of Indianapolis

[rej70]

here's a link to a Train GIF scene I put together, with CSX and Amtrak trains going around the RCA Dome and toward (or away from) the Union Station train sheds. (I added some creative details)
http://www.geocities.com/rej70

http://www.geocities.com/rej70

[rej70]

I have pictures of the NYC in Lebanon from the very late 80's (with the tracks still in)

http://www.marquisevip.com/rjohnson/realtrains.htm