NYC Cleveland electrification and the RTA Red Line

[drewh]

An interesting off shoot came up on the SEPTA forum, and I'm hoping it can be answered here:

The topic was about trolley poles and someone mentioned how PCC's with poles used to run under catenary on the Red Line.

I'm curious, does anyone know the history of the red line?? Is it a remnant of the NYC electrification thru Terminal Tower?? Why did Amtrak stop using Terminal Tower as a station??

[BaltOhio]

"Classic Trains" mag Spring 2005 issue has an extensive article on CUT which should answer all of your questions. Basically, the RTA Red Line between W. 25th St. and Superior Ave. in East Cleveland was graded and almost completed in 1930 as a part of the general CUT construction project. It was on its own separate right-of-way. The Depression stopped the project and it was not until 1955 that the line was completed.

[drewh]

Thanks, I'll have to go buy that.

I did find this really excellant site as well yesterday:
http://my.en.com/~johnb/redline.shtml

Was catenary chosen in 1955 because the CUT electrification was done with catenary?? Or was there another reason??

What voltage was the CUT catenary?? What about the Shaker Heights system and the Red line??

[BaltOhio]

Keep in mind that the present Red Line and the old CUT trackage were always separate, although they paralleled each other between Superior Ave. and W. 25th St. CUT's voltage was 3000-v.d.c.; the Shaker and Red Line are standard streetcar voltage, 600-v.d.c., or something close to that. When construction of the present Red Line ceased in 1930, it was largely completed, including catenary towers and station structures. CTS (as it was called then) simply used these when it built the Red Line in the early 1950s.

I'm sure catenary would have been used even if the structures hadn't been there, since the CTS (Red Line) needed to be compatible with the already-existing Shaker line. From the time that CUT opened in 1930, the Shaker used catenary itself between CUT and East 34th St.

[drewh]

Well tried to buy Classic Trains - wouldn't you know it they have the summer edition out already.

How did the PCC's operate under the catenary if the voltages were different??

[BaltOhio]

Maybe I wasn't clear, but the Shaker and Red Lines share joint track between E. 55th St. and the Terminal, and have done so since 1955. The voltage is the same on both lines. The Cleveland Union Terminal Co. used 3000-v.d.c. for its 22 electric locomotives. But, as I mentioned, CUT and the rapid transit lines were on separate rights-of-way with separate electrical systems, although in some locations (such as on the Cuyahoga River viaduct and east of the Terminal) they shared common catenary towers.

It's important, too, to make a distinction between the New York Central and the Cleveland Union Terminal Co. They were separate entities, although the NYC had a 93% interest in CUT (with NKP owning the other 7%). CUT Co. operated all the trains between Collinwood and Linndale for NYC and between about E. 40th St. and W. 40th St. for NKP. It also fully owned the right of way from E. 34th St. to W. 25th St.

You can probably get the previous issue of Classic Trains from Kalmbach.

[drewh]

Thanks for the info ... I was never sure before if the remnants of the CUT electrification became the Red Line or not. Didn't realise it was a completely different system that had been planned from the 30's but not implemented to the 50's.

Just orderred the back issue - looking forward to seeing it.