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Railroad Forums
Contract with Morris County
- Discussion about the M&E, RVRR and SIRR lines of New Jersey, and also the Maine Eastern operation in Maine. Official web site can be found here: www.merail.com.
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It's been about 15+ years since I had to deal with the Roxbury government over commercial issues. Good to see that they still excel at imitating a horse's hiney!!!!
From what I have noted over the past years, Roxbury comes off as very non-friendly to commercial ventures. I recognize that there are a number of issues from both sides that I have not been privy to regarding M&E's unsuccessful attempt to establish a construction debris removal station. Roxbury just comes off as very arrogant and dictatorial in their approach to handling the issue which was very reminiscent when I had to deal with them in the early '90's (at that time, the hot topic issue was commercial lighting at night and trying to prevent the infamous "skyglow" that would make Roxbury look like Las Vegas!
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From what I have noted over the past years, Roxbury comes off as very non-friendly to commercial ventures. I recognize that there are a number of issues from both sides that I have not been privy to regarding M&E's unsuccessful attempt to establish a construction debris removal station. Roxbury just comes off as very arrogant and dictatorial in their approach to handling the issue which was very reminiscent when I had to deal with them in the early '90's (at that time, the hot topic issue was commercial lighting at night and trying to prevent the infamous "skyglow" that would make Roxbury look like Las Vegas!
).If M&E is gung ho on establishing some sort of C&D facilty then why not set one up along their own line? AFAIK, the Whippany Line is owned by Morristown & Erie and the County of Morris wouldn;t have much of a say in the matter!
It would be nice if M&E got into the business as NYSW and NY&GL have some lucrative markets throughout the state!
It would be nice if M&E got into the business as NYSW and NY&GL have some lucrative markets throughout the state!
~Steve Pellettiere
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
Yes the Whippany Line, aka the original M&E, is owned by them. However, most, if not all, of the land next to the right of was that was once railroad owned no longer is. The larger issue is that the towns the line passes through. I would expect the reaction of say, Roseland or Hanover, to the attempted construction of a transfer station would make Roxbury look like a bunch of badly disorganized first graders. There would be so many lawyers involved within the first 24 hours it'd look like a NJ BAR convention. In other words - don't hold your breath.
Most, if not all, of the towns M&E operates through would be delighted if it were to disappear tomorrow. Other than the Santa Claus specials at the museum, they have no use for it and see it as being of no benefit to them. Given the low freight activity on the line and its primary usage as a home to stored/unused locomotives and passenger cars in various states of disrepair (seen by towns - with some justification - as eyesores and attractive nuisances), it's hard to make a convincing counter argument. The likelyhood of a rail freight resurgence is unfortunately minimal due to factors far beyond the M&E's control. For example, it's unlikely that any of the former Vornado/Two Guys warehouses will ever really function as big operation warehouses again - the rent is too high as the demand is there for conversion to other uses.
Before people tear me to ribbons - I love the M&E having watched it pretty closely for over 40 years. I hope it hangs on forever, but don't look to a trash transfer station to save its' fortunes.
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Most, if not all, of the towns M&E operates through would be delighted if it were to disappear tomorrow. Other than the Santa Claus specials at the museum, they have no use for it and see it as being of no benefit to them. Given the low freight activity on the line and its primary usage as a home to stored/unused locomotives and passenger cars in various states of disrepair (seen by towns - with some justification - as eyesores and attractive nuisances), it's hard to make a convincing counter argument. The likelyhood of a rail freight resurgence is unfortunately minimal due to factors far beyond the M&E's control. For example, it's unlikely that any of the former Vornado/Two Guys warehouses will ever really function as big operation warehouses again - the rent is too high as the demand is there for conversion to other uses.
Before people tear me to ribbons - I love the M&E having watched it pretty closely for over 40 years. I hope it hangs on forever, but don't look to a trash transfer station to save its' fortunes.
A
Yes the Whippany Line, aka the original M&E, is owned by them. However, most, if not all, of the land next to the right of was that was once railroad owned no longer is. The larger issue is that the towns the line passes through. I would expect the reaction of say, Roseland or Hanover, to the attempted construction of a transfer station would make Roxbury look like a bunch of badly disorganized first graders. There would be so many lawyers involved within the first 24 hours it'd look like a NJ BAR convention. In other words - don't hold your breath.
Oh no, I'm not holding my breath by any means!! All I ask was the feasibility of setting up a trash/debris transfer site along the Whippany Line. Now that I know that is next to impossible, I won't comment that much more on the matter. However, that being said, there are certain loopholes with the towns and even the state, which really don't have control (YET) over interstate commerce and the STB's decisions regarding new traffic generated by the railroad. I would also think there are some areas along the railroad that are privately owned that COULD be sold to the Morristown & Erie for such purposes.
But your right, all the above probably won't happen and the stuff will continue to be transported by trucks via the local roads through the townships and the county! The NIMBYS already know this, but it isn't as much as of an important issue to them since the railroad isn't involved!
~Steve Pellettiere
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
True there are parcels which could be purchased but again the economics are against it. Land in Morris County is comparatively high priced even to most other areas of NJ so that sets the cost of entry pretty high. It also assumes one can find a seller that doesn't want to (or is blindsided) into being dragged into a public controversy.
Finally, I gather that most of the other C&D operations (Susie and NYGL come to mind) were started on land already controlled by the railroad thus making initial investment costs very minimal (especially if you can get the hauler to pay for some of the facilities as I think was the case in at least some of these instances).
Finally, I gather that most of the other C&D operations (Susie and NYGL come to mind) were started on land already controlled by the railroad thus making initial investment costs very minimal (especially if you can get the hauler to pay for some of the facilities as I think was the case in at least some of these instances).
blockline4180 wrote:Block,
But your right, all the above probably won't happen and the stuff will continue to be transported by trucks via the local roads through the townships and the county! The NIMBYS already know this, but it isn't as much as of an important issue to them since the railroad isn't involved!
This was one of the bones of contention with the Roxbury site when it first came up. NONE of the material to be shipped was being generated in Morris County. Morris County's generated waste must go through it's MUA transfer stations. So these trucks are not currently on the local streets.
CV the Civil E
blockline4180 wrote:If M&E is gung ho on establishing some sort of C&D facilty then why not set one up along their own line? AFAIK, the Whippany Line is owned by Morristown & Erie and the County of Morris wouldn;t have much of a say in the matter!I am not familiar with the Whippany Line. Is this the line between Morristown and Route 10? If so the cars that would be used to ship this material would not make it very far. Most of the C&D cars exceed the height requirements for operating on NJT east of Denville. A site along the Chester, High Bridge, or D&R would be more suitable for the average C&D railcars. The only cars that would work for a C&D site east of Denville would be the standard container on flat car.
Fighting on the internet is like the Special Olympics, even if you win, you are still retarded.
cjvrr wrote:NONE of the material to be shipped was being generated in Morris County. Morris County's generated waste must go through it's MUA transfer stations.cjvrr,
How can you say "NONE" was being generated in Morris County? The transfer station would have handled any construction/demolition from any active site, not predetermined locations. Like an auto salvage yard, the materials would come from anywhere and the radius would be determined by how low the tipping fees would be. And these materials haven't been generated yet.
Are you also saying that Morris County has some stipulation that says all dump trucks carrying demolition debris has to be routed through a County facility for inspection? So, assuming I have the proper construction permits in place, if I tear down a house, excavate the foundation and remove a number of trees (all non-haz), prior to building a different facility, I have to route my dump trucks and roll off trucks through the County for disposition before I take it to a Pennsy landfill (or any landfill that has the lowest tipping fees)?
CJPat,
From the regulations listed below any C&D generated in Morris County MUST go through the MUA facilities and therefore would not go to any other loading facility in or outside of the County. That would mean the waste loaded to railroad cars at any possible Morris County location would NOT have been generated in Morris County.
http://mcmua.com/materialdetail.asp?MaterialID=58
Text below;
From the regulations listed below any C&D generated in Morris County MUST go through the MUA facilities and therefore would not go to any other loading facility in or outside of the County. That would mean the waste loaded to railroad cars at any possible Morris County location would NOT have been generated in Morris County.
http://mcmua.com/materialdetail.asp?MaterialID=58
Text below;
Regulations: Definition N.J.A.C. 7:26-2.13(g-1)
13C Construction and demolition waste: Waste building material and rubble resulting from construction, remodeling, repair, and demolition operations on houses, commercial buildings, pavements and other structures. The following materials may be found in construction and demolition waste: treated and untreated wood scrap; tree parts, tree stumps and brush; concrete, asphalt, bricks, blocks and other masonry; plaster and wallboard; roofing materials; corrugated cardboard and miscellaneous paper; ferrous and non-ferrous metal; non-asbestos building insulation; plastic scrap; dirt; carpets and padding; glass (window and door); and other miscellaneous materials; but shall not include other solid waste types.
Waste Flow Control: If generated in Morris County, this material is required to go to the MCMUA transfer stations if it is being disposed of.
CV the Civil E
Yes,
It very clearly stipulates that all C&D waste generated within the County must be dumped at a Morris County facility. That is very interesting. I assume it was founded on some perspective of Health & Safety and probably implemented to prevent illegal dumping on same property or anywhere along roadside (since the county was hugely rural until just recently). But in essence, it created a monopoly for the county government by forcing you to pay their disposal/tipping fees even if you could find a cheaper rate at someone else's landfill.
It also prevents you from privately handling concrete and asphalt recycling (unless all your material is generated elsewhere). So in one way it is anti-business.
It very clearly stipulates that all C&D waste generated within the County must be dumped at a Morris County facility. That is very interesting. I assume it was founded on some perspective of Health & Safety and probably implemented to prevent illegal dumping on same property or anywhere along roadside (since the county was hugely rural until just recently). But in essence, it created a monopoly for the county government by forcing you to pay their disposal/tipping fees even if you could find a cheaper rate at someone else's landfill.
It also prevents you from privately handling concrete and asphalt recycling (unless all your material is generated elsewhere). So in one way it is anti-business.
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Last edited by blockline4180 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Steve Pellettiere
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
Most of Morris County lately, as it seems, has become anti-business...At least when it comes to industrial growth... Besides, most of the people that live in the county are white color workers now... People who live in the Mcmansions in (Mendham, Chester, Long Valley, Denville, Randolph, etc etc etc) all either work at pencil pushing office buildings in the county or on Wall street...
Sorry, didn't mean to stray off topic![/quote]
Sorry, didn't mean to stray off topic![/quote]
~Steve Pellettiere
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."