Are any of these cars still around locally, in Western or Central NY? Thanks,
Charles
Charles
Railroad Forums
Ex-LA&L Stillwell coaches (from the 70s)
- Discussion pertaining to the past and present operations of the LAL, the WNYP, and the B&H. Official site: LALRR.COM.
Moderator: Luther Brefo
LAL had 2 groups of Stillwell coaches.
First Group was comprised of ERIE 2619 and 2508 which were purchased by LAL representatives in 1964 directly off the commuter ready track at Suffern, NY. EL personnel basically told LAL..there they are...take your pick! Cars were is good overall condition and were part of regular consist throughout the life of excursion operations.
Second group was purchased circa 1971 and consisted of ERIE 2171 and 2192. These cars were in the early group of cars produced for the Erie which had arch windows and fabricated open sideframe trucks much akin to an archbar design albeit with oil roller bearings. This series I am told were designed to allow installation of traction motors if and when Erie ever electrified the NJ commuter district. Cars were in bad interior condition when purchased and were used only as absolutely necessary as overload cars. Far as I recall they came off the dead track at Hornell. 2171 was painted and 2192 remained in its Erie paint upon disposition.
LAL 2508 and 2619 were sold to the Gettysburg Railroad along with a former DL&W Boonton combine (# unknown), and NYC day coach (2511), and NYC Empire State cars 2952 and 2652.
2171 was sold to a private individual in Honeoye Falls as an adjunct to his LV station and was moved there by Conrail. Car was eventualy scrapped at that location after several years....Car ultimetely returned to Livonia albeit in pieces as it was scrapped on site in Honeoye Falls by Fugles' of South Livonia and parts could be seen in their yard during the mid 1980s'
2192 migrated to the Loose Caboose restaurant complexadjacent to the OMID at Webster....(disposition??)
2508 and 2619 were offered by sale via Barnhart and Associates about 1998 and darn near came back to the LAL as a compliment to Office Car 100. Negotiations faltered and I believe cars may be in the Carolinas somewhere today....could be wrong.
Hope this helps.
First Group was comprised of ERIE 2619 and 2508 which were purchased by LAL representatives in 1964 directly off the commuter ready track at Suffern, NY. EL personnel basically told LAL..there they are...take your pick! Cars were is good overall condition and were part of regular consist throughout the life of excursion operations.
Second group was purchased circa 1971 and consisted of ERIE 2171 and 2192. These cars were in the early group of cars produced for the Erie which had arch windows and fabricated open sideframe trucks much akin to an archbar design albeit with oil roller bearings. This series I am told were designed to allow installation of traction motors if and when Erie ever electrified the NJ commuter district. Cars were in bad interior condition when purchased and were used only as absolutely necessary as overload cars. Far as I recall they came off the dead track at Hornell. 2171 was painted and 2192 remained in its Erie paint upon disposition.
LAL 2508 and 2619 were sold to the Gettysburg Railroad along with a former DL&W Boonton combine (# unknown), and NYC day coach (2511), and NYC Empire State cars 2952 and 2652.
2171 was sold to a private individual in Honeoye Falls as an adjunct to his LV station and was moved there by Conrail. Car was eventualy scrapped at that location after several years....Car ultimetely returned to Livonia albeit in pieces as it was scrapped on site in Honeoye Falls by Fugles' of South Livonia and parts could be seen in their yard during the mid 1980s'
2192 migrated to the Loose Caboose restaurant complexadjacent to the OMID at Webster....(disposition??)
2508 and 2619 were offered by sale via Barnhart and Associates about 1998 and darn near came back to the LAL as a compliment to Office Car 100. Negotiations faltered and I believe cars may be in the Carolinas somewhere today....could be wrong.
Hope this helps.
Just to add to my earlier posting, in the "for what it's worth department", the Boonton Car was was assigned number "1" when shipped to LAL in 1964 and was later assigned number 2501 when it was repainted about 1968. As hard as we tried, we could never locate evidence of the original DL&W number.
Cars were originally painted yellow... 2501 arrived this way from its' prior owner in Canada.... along with a green roof. 2508 and 2619 were repainted from Erie green to yellow in 1965. Paint was "Shell Yellow" donated by Wemett Oil Company of Hemlock which was a Shell distributor. This paint however did not weather well and faded rapidly. Lettering was dark green utilizing individual press on decals.
Eventually about 1968-69 the cars (2501, 2619, 2508, 2511) were repainted using "Caterpillar Yellow" which wore well with minimum of fading over time. This is also the time when a brown window and sill stripe was added. (Moores' "Tudor Brown"). Lettering became brown by just repainting over the decals and the original car numbers were restored utilizing the outline of the former Erie numbers.
By 1973 we eventually attacked the interiors of regular consist cars 2501, 2508 and 2619. In addition to receiving a snack bar, 2501 received some overdue ceiling replacement and was then repainted from a gaudy green and cream into something more representative of the maroon and cream interiors of similar Boonton cars and MUs' we had observed at Hornell..
The Stillwells were repainted to match the original Erie interior scheme with Moores' "Royal Blue" applied from floor to window sill. Moores' "Teal Green" from above window sill to top of side wall and a light robin egg blue (sorry, forgot the actual name of this one) for the ceiling. Interior ends of cars were solid "Teal Green". In a departure from Erie practice, one car received black paint for ceiling light fixtures, baggage racks and fans.
The interiors of the vestibules on both ends of cars were painted Tudor Brown and car numbers were repainted on the doors both in (black) and out ("Cat yellow"). Interior floors of the Stillwells were concrete and received a liberal dose of Moores Porch and Floor "Platinum Gray". The end platforms and steps received Moores' black "Iron-clad" rust inhibitive paint. Handrails all received contrasting paint of black or yellow.
All in all a classy little train in the last years..
Cars were originally painted yellow... 2501 arrived this way from its' prior owner in Canada.... along with a green roof. 2508 and 2619 were repainted from Erie green to yellow in 1965. Paint was "Shell Yellow" donated by Wemett Oil Company of Hemlock which was a Shell distributor. This paint however did not weather well and faded rapidly. Lettering was dark green utilizing individual press on decals.
Eventually about 1968-69 the cars (2501, 2619, 2508, 2511) were repainted using "Caterpillar Yellow" which wore well with minimum of fading over time. This is also the time when a brown window and sill stripe was added. (Moores' "Tudor Brown"). Lettering became brown by just repainting over the decals and the original car numbers were restored utilizing the outline of the former Erie numbers.
By 1973 we eventually attacked the interiors of regular consist cars 2501, 2508 and 2619. In addition to receiving a snack bar, 2501 received some overdue ceiling replacement and was then repainted from a gaudy green and cream into something more representative of the maroon and cream interiors of similar Boonton cars and MUs' we had observed at Hornell..
The Stillwells were repainted to match the original Erie interior scheme with Moores' "Royal Blue" applied from floor to window sill. Moores' "Teal Green" from above window sill to top of side wall and a light robin egg blue (sorry, forgot the actual name of this one) for the ceiling. Interior ends of cars were solid "Teal Green". In a departure from Erie practice, one car received black paint for ceiling light fixtures, baggage racks and fans.
The interiors of the vestibules on both ends of cars were painted Tudor Brown and car numbers were repainted on the doors both in (black) and out ("Cat yellow"). Interior floors of the Stillwells were concrete and received a liberal dose of Moores Porch and Floor "Platinum Gray". The end platforms and steps received Moores' black "Iron-clad" rust inhibitive paint. Handrails all received contrasting paint of black or yellow.
All in all a classy little train in the last years..
Excellent info and reccollections... I think I've only seen a couple of photos of LA&L in "the steam days." Never in color.
How did the Boonton coach get into the mix? Just something different, or was it the right price at the right time?
-otto-
How did the Boonton coach get into the mix? Just something different, or was it the right price at the right time?
-otto-
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Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
The Ex-DL&W open-platform Boonton-Line combine that you mention was the very first piece of rolling stock acquired by the LAL when we were incorporated in 1964. If I recall correctly, it had been used by an Ontario Hydro power line construction crew on the Ontario Northland. The Ontario Hydro sold it to the Fort Erie Jockey Club (I have no idea why they wanted it). One of our investors from Buffalo heard about it and helped us make the purchase for a nominal sum. The car had no seats or toilet when it arrived. A kerosene heater had been installed in the baggage section to provide heat while it was in use as a crew car. We installed school bus seats and used the combine with the two ex-Erie Stillwells in our tourist train, which began running in 1965. The combine arrived from Canada in a rather garish yellow and green color scheme. It was later repainted to match the Stillwells.
How well built were the Stillwell coaches compared to other coaches used at the time? Did their unusual construction have advantages for durability or comfort, was it easier to maintain them? How well did they ride, for the passenger. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who actually worked on these cars.
I wonder why so few railroads adopted what was when invented a considerable innovation in coach construction.
Roger
I wonder why so few railroads adopted what was when invented a considerable innovation in coach construction.
Roger
>>>>along with the Stillwells came on the market at the same time because of the new "push pull" trains NJDOT was buying for the EL's non electrified services. Tourist roads loved the open vestibules better than the enclosed vestibules of whatever else was being offered, including the Stillwells. The "Wyatt Earp" cars, as JJ Young I believed dubbed them, can be found on tourist roads, literally, from coast to coast!