Electric to Diesel

[MR77100]

What interurbans tore down the wires and went diesel? Here are a few to begin with:
-Central California Traction
-Cedar Rapids & Iowa City
-Illinois Terminal
-Springfield Terminal
-Claremont & Concord

[Komachi]

-Cedar Rapids & Iowa City

Ah, yes, the good ol' CRANDIC...


Well, what of the Chicago, South Shore & South Bend? While they do still continue with electric commuter coaches, they did convert to diesel (GP38-2s) for freight service. Don't know if that counts, but thought I'd throw it out there.

[westernrrtx]

Sacramento Northern

Visalia Electric

Pacific Electric

[BaltOhio]

Washington & Old Dominion (VA). Abandoned electric passenger service 1941 and dieselized freight at the same time, then reinstated pass. service with gas-electrics 1943.

Hagerstown & Frederick (MD)

Piedmont & Northern

Southern New York

Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern (Waterloo RR)

[MR77100]

-Oregon Electric
Went freight-only in 1940, dieselized in 1947.
-Aurora Elgin & Fox River Electric
Pared down to a 3.5 mile line for coal service to the South Elgin State Hospital. Dieselized in 1946 and a segment is now the Fox River Trolley Museum.

How many of these trolley-gone-diesel lines still exist? I know both the Central California Traction and CRANDIC are still very much in operation. What about the Oregon Electric and Pacific Electric?

[Frank Hicks]

There's also the Salt Lake Garfield & Western (Saltair), and I think the Kansas City & Kaw Valley may have dieselized also but I'm not sure. The Fox & Illinois Union and Connecticut Company both dieselized in their last years by fitting electric box motors with internal combustion engines. And of course we can't forget the Lee County Central in Illinois! :-)

Did the FJ&G dieselize or was it flat-out abandoned? I can't remember offhand.

Frank Hicks

[JimBoylan]

Consolidating previous replies between brackets and adding more of my own. In a few case, changes of ownership and propulsion happened at the same time. I know there were more, like in Ohio, Kansas, Texas, and New York.

CA > Central California Traction < still running
CA > Sacramento Northern < Now Union Pacific
CA > Visalia Electric < Now new name?
CA > Pacific Electric < Now Union Pacific
CA Stockton Terminal & Eastern RR Still running
CA Modesto & Empire Traction Co. Still running
CA Tidewater Southern < Now Union Pacific
CT Manufacturers Rwy. Tied up with Connecticut Company, New Haven RR, Penn Central, ConRail. Still running, now Providence & Worcester RR
CT Bridgeport probably Dieselised by New Haven RR, remnants may still be running as ConRail spinoffs
CT Waterbury probably Dieselised by New Haven RR, remnants may still be running as ConRail spinoffs
CT > Connecticut Company dieselized in last years by fitting electric box motors with internal combustion engines. < East Hartford, CT; later New Haven RR
IA Hutchinson & Northern Rwy. Co. Still running
IA Charles City Western RR Dieselised about 1967 after a tornado while owned by the Iowa Terminal RR. Now privately owned and not a common carrier, was used to move private passenger cars to temporary storeage in the carbarn
IA Fort Dodge, Des Moines & Southern later Chicago & North Western, now Union Pacific or Boone & Scenic Valley steam passenger service might be electrified with South Shore cars.
IA > Cedar Rapids & Iowa City < Still running
IA > Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern (Waterloo RR) < later Illinois Central, now Canadien National
IA Southern Iowa Rwy.
IL > Illinois Terminal < Now Norfolk Southern
IL > Aurora Elgin & Fox River Electric Pared down to a 3.5 mile line for coal service to the South Elgin State Hospital. Dieselized in 1946 and a segment is now the Fox River Trolley Museum. <
IL > The Fox & Illinois Union dieselized in last years by fitting electric box motors with internal combustion engines. <
IL > Lee County Central <
IL Chicago, Notrth Shore & Milwaukee 5 miles taken over by Chicago & North Western, now Union Pacific
IL Chicago, Aurora & Elgin some sidings taken over by Illinmois Central, now Canadien National
IN > Chicago, South Shore & South Bend? While they do still continue with electric commuter coaches, they did convert to diesel (GP38-2s) for freight service. <
IN Southern Indianna Rwy. Still running
KS Kansas City Public Service Freight Operation
KS > Kansas City & Kaw Valley may have dieselized also but I'm not sure. < Now Kaw River RR, one of the WATCO Companies?
MA Grafton & Upton Still running
MD > Hagerstown & Frederick (MD) < Later Potomic Edison before conversion. Does Chessie use any of its sidings in Frederick?
MD Baltimore & Annapolis RR did use an RDC to try to restart passenger service, Diesel freight last by Canton RR, electric passenger service restarted by Mass Transit Administration
MN Minneapolis, Anoka & Cuyna Range (The Dan Patch Line)
ME Aroostock Valley
NC > Piedmont & Northern < 2 disconnected lines; Now Norfolk Southern
NH > Claremont & Concord < Still running; to split hairs, they aquired the Claremont Rwy., which was the electric operation
NJ Cape May, Delaware Bay & Sewells Point RR More likely steamed or gasolined, tied up with the Philadelphia & Reading's Atlantic City RR
NJ Stone Harbor RR gasolined, freight may never have been electric.
NJ Trenton-Princeton Traction Co. later Reading Co., not aquired by ConRail
NJ Public Service Rwys. "Fast Line". Freight may have just been abandoned when passenger was gasolined.
NY > Southern New York <
NY > Did the FJ&G dieselize or was it flat-out abandoned? I can't remember offhand < They had a steam division, I don't know if any of the electric outlasted the wires; tied up with Delaware Otsego Corp. and New York, Susquehanna & Western RR
NY Rochester Transit Corp., later B & O, last operated by Rochester & Southern RR
NY Niagara Junction Dieselised by ConRail, now CSX
OH Youngstown & Southern May be part of Ohio Central
OH Toledo & Western RR
OK Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Railway Co. Still running
OK Sand Springs Rwy. Co. Still running
OR > Oregon Electric Went freight-only in 1940, dieselized in 1947. < Now Union Pacific
OR Portland Traction Co., later Portland (Ore.) Terminal RR
PA Wilkes-Barre & Hazleton RR later Lehigh Valley, may have lasted into ConRail and Reading & Northern
PA Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley RR later Delaware, Lackawanna & Western RR, now Lackawanna County. Electric passenger service restarted under wire on some of the former 3rd rail section
RI Warwick Rwy. Still running, now Providence & Worcester RR
SC > Piedmont & Northern < 2 disconnected lines; Now Norfolk Southern
TX Houston North Shore RR later Beaumont, Sour Lake & Western, now Union Pacific
UT > Salt Lake Garfield & Western (Saltair < Still running
VA Norfolk Southern Still running many mergers later and back to earlier name
VA > Washington & Old Dominion (VA). Abandoned electric passenger service 1941 and dieselized freight at the same time, then reinstated pass. service with gas-electrics 1943. <
VT > Springfield Terminal < electric portion probably dormant, but has operated Guilford Rail System, Still running
BC British Columbia Hydro & Electric now Southern Rwy. of British Columbia
ON Grand River Rwy./Lake Erie & Northern RR Now Canadien National
ON Niagara, St. Catherines & Toronto Now Canadien National
ON Windsor, Essex & Sandwich now Essex Terminal Rwy. Co.
PQ Montreal & Southern Counties Now Canadien National

[Komachi]

JimBoylan,

Believe it or not, the "Dan Patch Electric Line" was originally it's own line (the Minneapolis, St. Paul, Rochester & Dubuque Electric Traction Co.), which was powered by gas electrics. It was built in 1908 by Col. Marion Savage, who was the owner of the famous race horse, and ran from his farm (in what is now Savage, MN) to Minneapolis (Bloomington, MN... where the Mall of America is). The line was bought by the Minneapolis, Northfiled & Southern which operated the line until it was bought by the Soo Line in the early 80s. From what I can tell, the line went into receivership and the owner of the Central Warehouse Co. and the Minneapolis, Anoka and Cayuna Range bought some of the equipment from the Dan Patch Electric lines, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the line was ever electrified from what I can tell.

Here's a couple of blurbs on the original Dan Patch line...
http://deckernet.com/minn/DanPatch/DanP ... lroad.html
http://www.booneshares.com/The%20Dan%20Patch%20line.htm


The Minnesota Transit Museum has Dan Patch #100 the second gas-electric locomotive built in the US...
http://www.mtmuseum.org/?body=jsr/roster/dpl100.html

Locomotive #100 is interesting as it was a gas electric when it ran on the Dan Patch line, was converted to straight electric (using streetcar technology, including poles!) when it was sold to the Central Warehouse Co., continued to do so when it also worked for the Minneapolis, Anoka, & Cayuna Range. The MA&CR was aquired in 1943 by the Northern Pump Co.'s spin-off, the Northern Ordinance Co. to transport workers to and from a new plant it constructed. In 1946 the MA&CR was de-electrified, the streetcars that ran on it's system scrapped and #100 re-engined with a Waukesha diesel engine and generator. In 1964, FMC bought Northern Ordinance, including the MA&CR and two years later it was purchased from FMC by the Northern Pacific and loco #100 donated to the Minnesota Transit Museum.

So, while the Dan Patch Electric Lines may never have been electrified, engine #100 was... and then converted to diesel. And the Minneapolis, Anoka & Cyuna Range adds to the list of electric to diesel lines on our list (although it shouldn't be confused with the Dan Patch line).


Interestingly enough, the Twin Cities has been doing feasibilty studies for building commuter rail lines in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metropolitan area. One of the corridors they want to build in is the old Dan Patch Line, and the corridor will also bear the Dan Patch name.

http://www.thisweek-online.com/2000/jan ... muter.html

Although, given the negative views of the line by the NIMBYs, the project may not go through. (Maybe if the line was electrified, they wouldn't complain about noise that much?) We'll have to see.


Also, Canadian Pacific has spun off the former Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern to Progressive Rail, part of which, was the original Dan Patch trackage.

http://www8.cpr.ca/cms/English/Media/Ne ... +Line+.htm


So, in one sense or another, the Dan Patch Line is still in use.


Edit - did a little more surfing and found this bit about the MA&CR. I didn't think it warrented its own posting, so I added it here...
http://www.ci.coon-rapids.mn.us/council ... leycar.htm

[russp]

I don't know if all of the below went from electric directly to diesel without steam operation, but here are some others:

CA: Fresno Interurban (to AT&SF); Petaluma & Santa Rosa
CO: Denver & Intermountain (to Associated RR)
ID/WA: Spokane Coeur d'Alene & Palouse (GN subsidiary)
IL: Rock Island Southern
IND: Winona (small part at Winona); Indiana RR (to Sou. Ind. RR
near Jeffersonville)
MO: St. Francois County RR
MO/KS: Joplin & Pittsburg
MT: Gallatin Valley Ry (Bozeman, to MILW)
NE: Omaha Lincoln & Beatrice (I think it converted)
NY: Erie RR (Rochester - Mt. Morris); Jamestown Westfield & NW
OK: Northeast Oklahoma RR
OR: United Rys (to SP&S)
TN: Chattanooga Traction (I think converted)
UT: Bamberger RR
WA: Walla Walla Valley RR (to UP)

[JimBoylan]

To split hairs, Southern Indianna Rwy. converted after it was spun off from Indianna RR.

[Aa3rt]

Jim and Russ,

Thanks for the definitive lists! Two of the railroads in question that I am familiar with are the Jamestown, Westfield and North Western (That is the proper spelling-North Western being two words.) and the Springfield Terminal.

The JW&NW (Known locally as "Jesus Wept and No Wonder".) was originally a steam line organized and the Jamestown & Lake Erie Railway (absorbing a few predecessor roads in the process) and was reorganized as the Jamestown, Chautauqua and Lake Erie in 1899. In 1913 the line was taken over by the Jamestown, Westfield and North Western with electric operation beginning in August of 1914. The line remained an electric operation until November of 1947 when passenger operations ended. Diesel freight service, provided by a pair of GE 70 tonners continued until January of 1950 when the line was abandoned.

For more information on the JW&NW:

http://wnyrails.railfan.net/railroads/jwnw/jwn_home.htm

The Springfield Terminal began life as the Springfield Electric in 1897 and operated under that name until 1921 when the name changed to the more familiar Springfield Terminal. Passenger operations ceased sometime after WWII, but freight trains continued to moved under wires until October of 1956. Diesel freight continued, first with a GE 44 tonner and later using B&M diesels until 1984 when the line was discontinued.

For more on the ST:

http://vuhs.org/erails/strc/index.html

[Frank Hicks]

IL: Rock Island Southern

Are you certain the RIS dieselized? Even during their electric days they operated freight with steam engines, but in later years, they continued minimal freight operations in Monmouth using electric equipment. (The story of the gradual demise of the RIS is really pretty fascinating, but that's off-topic here.) I believe the last two pieces of equipment to operate on the RIS were an ex-Eastern Michigan freight motor and then an ex-Kansas City Public Service dump motor, both electric.

And on another subject mentioned in this thread: Komachi said the Dan Patch engine was the second gas-electric locomotive built in the U.S. That is false. I know for certain of two gas-electric locomotives built in 1903-1904, ten years prior to the Dan Patch engine. One was a wood-bodied two-truck unit built by the Hicks Locomotive & Car Works for St. Joseph Valley Traction in Indiana; the second was a three-axle unit built for the Macomb & Western Illinois (see http://gelwood.railfan.net/misc-m/mwi-bc0awlu.jpg for a photo). I would speculate that there were additional gas-electric locomotives built between 1904 and 1913 as well, but research would be needed to verify that guess.

Frank Hicks

[Komachi]

Frank,

"Komachi said the Dan Patch engine was the second gas-electric locomotive built in the U.S. That is false. I know for certain of two gas-electric locomotives built in 1903-1904, ten years prior to the Dan Patch engine. One was a wood-bodied two-truck unit built by the Hicks Locomotive & Car Works for St. Joseph Valley Traction in Indiana; the second was a three-axle unit built for the Macomb & Western Illinois ..."


I was suspect when I read that factoid (given the number of locomotive builders around at the turn of the last century), but according to the Minnesota Transit Museum page about the Dan Patch unit, they say that GE claimed it to be the second Gas-Electric built (mayhapse the second built by GE?) and are touting it as such. Here's the quote from the page linked above (and below here)...

"Technologically, the Dan Patch is very interesting. Its maker claimed it to be the first internal-combustion locomotive with a generator to drive electric traction motors. (Though in fact it was the second.)"

So I don't know how you want to interpret that. I just reported what I read.


The Dan Patch #100 page, again...
http://www.mtmuseum.org/?body=jsr/roster/dpl100.html

[Frank Hicks]

Its maker claimed it to be the first internal-combustion locomotive with a generator to drive electric traction motors.

Interesting. I wonder why GE would have said that? I suppose the gas-electrics which preceded it (any gas-electric would need a generator to create electric current for the motors) were so unsuccessful and short-lived that they were soon forgotten.

Frank Hicks

[JimBoylan]

Probably not exactly what we're looking for, but this discussion in the New
Jersey Railfan section of this Group about the freight service on the
Greystone Park Asylum line of Morris County Traction near Morris Plains,
N.J. mentioned that it was finally operated by the Erie Lackawanna RR. It
isn't clear if the trolleys ever hauled the freight cars. Trolley service
stopped about 1929, so if there were any passenger trains after that,
would it be a case of steam replacing electricity?
Http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... b1d6c6621b

On the subject of hospital branches, the Mt. Loretto Boys' Home branch of
Staten Island Rapid Transit was never electrified. Passenger service
lasted a short time after the electrification of the rest of the system, so the
last few trains had steam locos hauling the new electric cars on the end of
the trip!

The recent books on Westinghouse and General Electric interurban freight
locomotives offer some possibilities to investigate. Were any of the
present day railroads that bought these critters interurbans back then?
Try Roberville & Sanguaney in Quebec!