Bar Harbor Special Service Proposal

I'm aware there is already a thread for resurrecting defunct Amtrak routes however I would like to suggest an entirely new route based on historical circumstances. I propose a seasonal train from New York Penn Station to Ellsworth, ME via bus service to Bar Harbor. This area of Maine tends to be very popular with tourists in the summer months and I believe there are some profits to be made here.
Historically speaking there was the Bar Harbor Express which was originally operated in conjunction with the New Haven, Boston & Maine and Maine Central railroads until Labor Day of 1960. Since then there has been no passenger rail service in central Maine other than the recent Maine & Eastern which suspended operations recently. The re-organization of Amtrak coinciding with Anderson's administration means there is some potential for change including new service proposals. For the sake of this discussion I have listed possible stations as well as consists below. I look forward to further discussing this topic with you.

Proposed Stations:
New York Penn Station
Stamford
New Haven
Hartford
Springfield
Worcester
Lowell
Dover
Portland
Brunswick
Augusta
Waterville
Bangor
Ellsworth
Bar Harbor (via bus service)

Consist:
Standard Downeast consist with a P32-DM on each end (for reverse movement at Bangor)

Hi Cameron! I’m moving your post to the Amtrak forum and flagging it for merge, because there is also a Long Distance Maine Proposals topic this would fit. Lots of good info there.

As for your proposal, you might find more support running it from Boston North Station with a dedicated bus link to South Station. That frees you from needing a scarce P32, or any special equipment aside from a pair of locomotives or a cab car.

On the plus side: Mt Desert Island now had very good summer bus service, so getting there with no car actually makes some sense. And a lot of people go there.

On the minus side: There are a couple good road routes, choice of quaint coast or fast turnpike and not a whole lot of traffic the last two or three times I was there, so I am not sure of the market, or why it would be better than nice buses. Huge length of track to rebuild for any kind of reasonable speed.

Counter-proposal: Rockland service and a fast ferry to Bass Harbor. Uses mostly existing infrastructure plus buys a Hurtigbåt (fast boat for coastal transportation) from Norway, where they run 30 mph or faster routes all over the place.

It would all have to do with the market. Do enough people want to make the trip every day in the summer to cover a substantial part of the costs of either option? I really have no idea. MDI has so many tourists that I doubt the towns or the state would pay to try to attract more. On the other hand a train+coastal ferry that could spread the tourists out along the central coast might have something going for it. If the other islanders dont just want to be left in peace.

You're skipping Haverhill, which would be a connection point for MBTA riders.

By and large, this is the old State of Maine Express route that ran until 1960. Good luck with getting over PAR withs its myriad 10 MPH speed limits [on the Worcester Main], and various speed restrictions.

A seasonal from nyp would be interesting depending on the schedule

I'd propose a stop in Clinton, Ma or Ayer, Ma they are both in between Worcester and Lowell, and they'd provide an MBTA connection. Also, a train into NYP needs to electrified, so either route electrification (not going to happen anytime soon) or a dual-mode locomotive needs to be used. Also, service could be run through BON using the Grand Junction Running Track through Cambridge, and instead of going to Lowell or Ayer/Clinton it could stop in Framingham, and Haverhill.

benboston wrote:I'd propose a stop in Clinton, Ma or Ayer, Ma they are both in between Worcester and Lowell, and they'd provide an MBTA connection. Also, a train into NYP needs to electrified, so either route electrification (not going to happen anytime soon) or a dual-mode locomotive needs to be used. Also, service could be run through BON using the Grand Junction Running Track through Cambridge, and instead of going to Lowell or Ayer/Clinton it could stop in Framingham, and Haverhill.

That's why Ben I suggested using two dual mode P32s for the route. I forgot about Haverhill and some of the other MBTA stations as commuter connections. It would need to be carefully coordinated no less and that's assuming connections could be made on-time. The tracks between Bangor and Ellsworth along with the section between Brunswick and Augusta require rehabilitation work at the moment. A station in Augusta can attract state funding and gain support of local politicians.

I think there is a need for those romantic destination packages of yore. Apparently (I wasn´t around back then) railroads provided destination hotel, transportation over multiple railroads or steamships and buses). Fancy posters and stylish ads in magazines. Perhaps booked through a travel agent (what is that). Now you are on your own with only the internet to help.

This route is similar to the NNEPRA proposal for one-seat NYP to Portland ME, and similar to The State of Maine or The Gull that I´ve been reading about around here. There have been extensive threads either here in Amtrak or in the New England folder.

If you wanted to cobble together something rail-central quickly (i.e. less than 20-50 years), you would take Acela or NE Regional NYP-BBY, transfer by subway to BON, then Downeaster to Brunswick. Then continue to Rockland via a chartered special. From there I don´t think there is passenger-grade track available, the coast gets very irregular and the road network is poor, so I like the idea of the fast ferry.

variations: ¨inland regional¨ will be possible soon-ish, if CSX track between SPG-WOR gets double-tracked or purchased by MassDOT. PAR´s ¨Worcester Main¨ is too slow, and there are no proposals to upgrade to passenger speed. Grand junction is an option. Amtrak doesn´t have enough trains to justify a North-South Rail Link; The MBTA has enough trains but can´t justify the cost.

Whatever merits such a seasonal service might have, Amtrak under Anderson is clearly in a shrinkage mode and I'd be amazed to see any sort of route expansion in the foreseeable future, especially one like this that would require expensive upgrading of many miles of what is now slow freight track.

I think this will go nowhere. Track conditions, limited market, preference for the all mighty automobile and probably other things will stop it cold.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:I think this will go nowhere. Track conditions, limited market, preference for the all mighty automobile and probably other things will stop it cold.
Noel Weaver

If the politicians in Augusta can get themselves together then I think anything is possible. I know a lot of college students up in that area of Maine who would love an affordable way home come summer break and again during the semester start. Service to Bangor and beyond can get more people off the streets, tourism may soar as a result. Track conditions are a problem of funding but I don't believe it'd be any worse than what it took to get service to Brunswick. I don't think you've quite seen Bar Harbor recently, it's very lively much to the good of the local economy. Mark my words you get a train up there Noel you'll have more people than Amtrak can handle.

I like your enthusiasm, Cameron, but I think it could use a little tempering with practicality. The likes of Noel have a good perspective on operations, and what you're proposing would be wonderful, were it to be on Amtrak's hot list. But Tom Nelligan has it right, unfortunately. Are you from Maine?

Mr. Wolk: your proposal sounds interesting, but, lets look at reality. Its 139 rail miles from Brunswick to Ellsworth (MEC employee timetable #2, 04-1982). The track from Brunswick to East Augusta is totally out of service. A rail overpass in Richmond has been removed and rail is missing in East Augusta. The speed limit from East Augusta to Bangor is 10 mph max. The line from Brewer to Ellsworth has been out of service for at least 32 years, plus the rail is 85lb. Maybe someone on this forum can accurately guess the cost of rehab. No signal system, max passenger speed for class 4 track (or higher class track for that matter, will be 59 mph). Add a signal system, up goes the cost. Who will be responsible for dispatching from Brunswick to East Augusta and Brewer to Ellsworth? Pan Am doesn't own these tracks anymore. And the maintenance of signals and track, who will be responsible? I'm guessing the rehab will cost will be somewhere between $150 to $280 million dollars, roughly a quarter of a billion dollars. For seasonal service? I've got a better idea. Contract with a bus company, paint the bus in Amtrak colors, paint the front like a P40 and the rear like an amfleet coach, complete with a fake door on the rear. The Interstate is good for 70mph from Brunswick to Bangor. The infrastructure is there and for the most part paid for. You reinforced my reasoning to vote for Trump. Socialism works, till you run out of someone elses money. Please spare us poor Mainers from higher taxes.