Jasper-Prince Rupert Trains #5 & #6

Is the VIA Jasper-Prince Rupert train essentially for tourists? The required overnight stay in Prince George would make it appear so. Are there any reasonably priced accommodations in Prince George and Prince Rupert? There no information in the current VIA timetable other than the train schedule. Thanks.

Yes, the schedule is mainly for tourists. VIA doesn't have same-day connections in Jasper and hasn't in a long time, so if travelling by train to or from there you will need to stay overnight one or two nights. I'm not saying that's a bad thing (I love Jasper) but it can be a strain on one's time and budget.

It's been a few years since I've been to Prince Rupert and Prince George. In Prince Rupert I have stayed with my family at the Moby Dick which is quite reasonable. The current price for summer (until the end of September) is $79 - 99 single, $85 - $105 double. It was all right, but if I'm there again I will stay in a better establishment.

In Prince George we stayed at the Coast Inn of the North. There are cheaper places to stay, but I was warned by several people that P.G. can be a rough town - no offence to any of the residents, but that is it's reputation - so we stayed at one of the best hotels. The current rate, single or double, starts at $130. By the way their restaurant, Winston's, was a fabulous experience. It was the last time I ever had a Caesar salad prepared in the traditional manner. According to their current menu, they still do it. It's not cheap, but if you are spending a lot of time on VIA you might want to splurge. The food on the Canadian is usually good - sometimes very good - but not so on the train formerly known as the Skeena, even in "Touring Class."

Do they force people off the train at night at Prince George or are you allowed to sleep in your seat if desired?

They don't let anyone stay on the train overnight so you'll have to find some other place to sleep.

When I've been on this train, and I was on it pretty regular from around 2004 to 2008, I did find that this train did carry a descent amount of local passengers. Overall it carries more passengers when "tourist" class is offered - largely because this leads to an extra coach car being added (i.e. former VIA 1 coach car).

On one trip I was on, the coach was full, and that was when VIA was offering comfort coach, Totem, and Totem Deluxe. The coach actually was over-booked between Prince Rupert and Prince George that some passengers were moved to the "Totem" car (no one as booked in this car anyway - they were all in the Totem Deluxe car).

I can't recall the hotel I stayed in at Prince George - it was a high rise hotel building though.

In Prince Rupert, there was a great hotel I would stay at. Not sure if it was the "Coast" or not, but all I know is it was located right next to the water and was only about three levels high. I woke up one morning and right outside my window was a HUGE cruise boat on its way from Alaska to Vancouver. I booked a suite of some sort at this hotel and it was only around like $100. It was a great deal and it was a great hotel with a restaurant that offered the best Halibut I ever had in my life. It was fresh for sure. The hotel was located closer to downtown.

Typically if I booked a trip to Prince Rupert for vacation I took the train up from Jasper, would stay over in Prince Rupert for a few days (renting a car and visitig loal sites etc.), and then fly back to Vancouver. Getting a plane out of Prince Rupert was one of the most interesting experiences I endured for sure! I'd also do the reverse - fly up from Vancouver to Prince Rupert and then take the train to Jasper.

In 2005 or so, VIA was close to extending the Skeena (as it was known then) to Edmonton. VIA's marketing department wanted the train to begin and end in Edmonton so its terminus was at a major city with an airport. VIA thought it would be more beneficial for its "Touring Class." But this never came to be.

Years ago, the Skeena was attached to the rear of the Canadian to/from Edmonton and then separated at Jasper. Train #5 and #6 would still benefit from a connection with the Canadian or at least extension to Edmonton. The day-trip from Edmonton to Prince George would likely attract a few different markets - those bound for just Jasper or those wanting the full experience to Prince George/Rupert.

I haven't been on this train since VIA made some downgrades on the "Touring Class" (formerly known as Totem or Totem Deluxe class). Gone are the "hot meals" and the Panorama cars for what would now be called "Touring Class." VIA's replaced the Panorama Car with a VIA 1 class coach car (business class stainless steel coach). They still though, have the Park Car with dome as a consolation. VIA was at one time nearly operating this train's "Touring Class" or "Totem Class" like the Rocky Mountaineer's service. And in some respects I think they wanted to operate in this fashion.

It's a great little train with spectacular scenery!!!

In the 1980s, the Skeena did run combined with the Super Continential. The Canadian was shifted onto the CN line after the 1990 budget cuts.

Thanks to all for the information on #5 and #6.

Bill

Tom6921 wrote:In the 1980s, the Skeena did run combined with the Super Continential. The Canadian was shifted onto the CN line after the 1990 budget cuts.

Yes, and the Skeena and Canadian were actually combined when when the Hinton crash ocurred. The Skeena was expanded to run 4 days per week during peak season for a year or two in the mid 2000's after delivery of the Panorama Cara that operated on the line at that point. It didn't last long for the Skeena to return to 3 days per week. But as part of this change, the Skeena was supposed to have a new terminus at Edmonton, rather than Jasper. But that never came to be. VIA's marketing department was pretty sure they had gotten the Edmonton terminus for the Skeena (as a seperate train), but alas that was not to be.

One could connect with the Skeena at Jasper and even the Hudson Bay train at Winnipeg (to/from the Canadian), but all this is now history. I remember the service attendants of the eastbound Canadian would even accomodate connectiong passengers to the Skeena (to Prince George) at the junction where the Skeena would split off from the Canadian's route.

When I was in Vancouver airport, I was surprised about how many passengers boarded the plane to Prince George or Prince Rupert. So there definitely seemed to be a travel market between Vancouver and Prince George. However, I doubt a lot of people would take that option even when the Canadian and Skeena did connect.

After the 1990 cuts, this was also the first time that the Skeena received ex-CP stainless steel cars that had formerly worked largely on the Canadian. It started off as an overnight train between Jasper and Prince Rupert and then evolved into the current form of day train it is today.

If this #5 and #6 offered revenue space during the day in the Park Car's sleepers. I'd be tempted to book it as a "day room" - especially the "cabin for 3" that has a nice couch.

jp1822 wrote:

Tom6921 wrote:In the 1980s, the Skeena did run combined with the Super Continential. The Canadian was shifted onto the CN line after the 1990 budget cuts.

Yes, and the Skeena and Canadian were actually combined when when the Hinton crash ocurred.

As "Tom6921" noted above, it was actually the Super Continental......the Canadian was still running on CP through Banff.

A little history:

The original Super Continental had been discontinued in November 1981. There was no through passenger service between Winnipeg and Vancouver on the route VIA’s Canadian uses today.

On June 3, 1984 the “Panorama” was introduced between Winnipeg and Edmonton. Returning passenger service to the CN line via Melville and replacing a daytime train via Regina. It also replaced the Skeena between Edmonton and Prince Rupert......Basically a through Winnipeg to Prince Rupert train (tri-weekly west of Edmonton)

On June 1, 1985 the Super Continental was relaunched. Replacing the Panorama between Winnipeg and Jasper and was extended through to Vancouver. Returning passenger service to the CN line between Red Pass Jct. (Jasper) and Vancouver for the first time since Nov. 1981. The Skeena name returned as a through Edmonton to Prince Rupert train which was attached to the Super Continental between Edmonton and Jasper tri-weekly. This was the way the trains were operating at the time of the Hinton disaster.

The Canadian replaced the Super Continental on the CN route in January 1990.

jp1822 wrote:When I've been on this train, and I was on it pretty regular from around 2004 to 2008, I did find that this train did carry a descent amount of local passengers. Overall it carries more passengers when "tourist" class is offered - largely because this leads to an extra coach car being added (i.e. former VIA 1 coach car).
...

There have been no VIA 1 cars sent out for this season. (The corridor service is now called Business Class, but the cars have not been repainted and are still lettered "VIA 1" on the sides.) They have sent HEP-2 coaches. I'm wondering which passengers are accommodated in which coach? The type of coach used year-round, of course, is a HEP-1 car with generous leg-room. The VIA-1 cars have reasonable, but not as good, leg-room as the coach. I'm hoping they are not using a HEP-2 coach with its cramped corridor seating as Touring Class.

marquisofmississauga wrote:

jp1822 wrote:When I've been on this train, and I was on it pretty regular from around 2004 to 2008, I did find that this train did carry a descent amount of local passengers. Overall it carries more passengers when "tourist" class is offered - largely because this leads to an extra coach car being added (i.e. former VIA 1 coach car).
...

There have been no VIA 1 cars sent out for this season. (The corridor service is now called Business Class, but the cars have not been repainted and are still lettered "VIA 1" on the sides.) They have sent HEP-2 coaches. I'm wondering which passengers are accommodated in which coach? The type of coach used year-round, of course, is a HEP-1 car with generous leg-room. The VIA-1 cars have reasonable, but not as good, leg-room as the coach. I'm hoping they are not using a HEP-2 coach with its cramped corridor seating as Touring Class.

I would also agree regarding the coaches used for "Touring Class" on trains #5 and #6. I hope it is one with more legroom and definitely a comfortable coach for the price paid!

I've seen two recent photographs of the "Skeena" and I'm afraid the corridor HEP-2 coach is the one used for Touring Class. So people paying the higher fare are given cramped seating and those paying the cheaper fare get the coach with loads of leg room. The only reason I can think of for this nonsense is that there are no facilities for storing food or even making coffee in the ex-CPR coach. The VIA 1 car previously used on this train had ovens for simultaneously heating meals for a full load. But as we know, only cold meals are served so the HEP-2 car can handle the limited catering requirements. Fortunately the Park car is adjacent and from my observations on this train most passengers will want to use that car outside of meal times. But the Park car can seat 24 in the dome, 12 in the rear lounge and 12 in the Mural Lounge. Given the light loads being reported, that should be sufficient. But if Touring Class is sold out - there are 68 seats in one of those HEP-2 coaches - some people will have to remain in the coach. Those in the Mural Lounge will barely see a mountain from that perspective, so realistically only 36 passengers will be comfortable in the Park car..

marquisofmississauga wrote:I've seen two recent photographs of the "Skeena" and I'm afraid the corridor HEP-2 coach is the one used for Touring Class. So people paying the higher fare are given cramped seating and those paying the cheaper fare get the coach with loads of leg room. The only reason I can think of for this nonsense is that there are no facilities for storing food or even making coffee in the ex-CPR coach. The VIA 1 car previously used on this train had ovens for simultaneously heating meals for a full load. But as we know, only cold meals are served so the HEP-2 car can handle the limited catering requirements. Fortunately the Park car is adjacent and from my observations on this train most passengers will want to use that car outside of meal times. But the Park car can seat 24 in the dome, 12 in the rear lounge and 12 in the Mural Lounge. Given the light loads being reported, that should be sufficient. But if Touring Class is sold out - there are 68 seats in one of those HEP-2 coaches - some people will have to remain in the coach. Those in the Mural Lounge will barely see a mountain from that perspective, so realistically only 36 passengers will be comfortable in the Park car..

It would seem more appropriate to use the VIA 1 Car - and perhaps even offer better food service and seating, along with the dome. VIA seemed to be on the right path at one time with the Skeena and its "Totem Class" aka "Touring Class." However, I bet current loads in Touring class on the Skeena are more than comfortable for passengers to take up space in the Park Car. However, I can remember being on this train once with a nearly packed coach AND Touring Class. A tour group was definitely in tow that day!