Mineola Wye, Oyster Bay and Far Rockaway

To try to get to the bottom of the question about trains running from Oyster Bay to Valley Stream, etc. and/or vice versa, I asked the man with the answers (and all the timetables): Art Huneke.

We all learn something new with every question asked!

Art's reply follows.

Dave Keller

I believe the Sunday "Newspaper Train" used the east leg on its run from Far Rock to OB. And excursions were run from OB to the Rockaways. In 1880 trains to Greenport, Lakeland, Patchogue, Port Jeff, Old N.Port and Oyster Bay ran via Garden City. This means the OB and PJ trains had to use the east leg. The North Siding at that time curved around to a connection with the OB Branch and there was a crossover east of the east end of the N. Siding.

After 1910 when Valley to Lynbrook became four tracks a train could not run from the WH Br. to the FR Br. without making a reverse move.

When steam ran between VS and Mineola they may have used the wye to turn the train. After electrification they would not need the wye.

Interesting queries.

Art

Why (Roosevelt Raceway?) and when was the central line electrified east of Washington Ave? How far did it go? Mitchell Field? What sub station powered it? Mineola? Hempstead? There must have been a fair amount of passenger traffic, since the stations were large and well put together (Merrill Ave station). How far east did the electrified tracks go? Mitchell Field? When was the last race train? 196????

The LIRR ran the ex-Ocean Electric trolley cars via third rail between Garden City and Salisbury Plains (then Meadowbrook) from 1915 until 1933.

So . . . 3rd rail was in use in 1915.

After 1933, MP41 MU cars took over the shuttle service to Mitchell (Mitchel) Field.

In 1950, they were replaced by MP54 MU cars.

All regularly scheduled shuttle service ceased on 5/16/53.

Art Huneke's website shows a special Roosevelt Raceway schedule from August, 1957, advertising improved service to the racetrack, so race trains ran as late as the 1957 season.

I don't know how much later after that date they ran.

Dave Keller

P.S. 5 miles of experimental electric line was run east of Hempstead Crossing in 1905 for the Pennsy to test what later would develop into the DD1 locomotive. It was a catenary/pantograph system. DK

I was never aware that there was a connection from the OB branch all the way down to Valley. In all the early photos of Nassau interlocking that I have show the OB branch striking away at it's present day sight while a single track seperated from the main just east of the Mineola Blvd overpass turning south to Hempstead/ W. Hemp branches. There were no cross overs in any photos that I have that show a direct connection from the OB branch to the Hemp/ W. Hemp branch without having to do a reverse move into Mineola station. There was a 4-way intersection in Garden City now known as Garden where Trains were able to head east on the Mitchell secondary, Hempstead branch, W. Hempstead branch, and north to the Main at Nassau interlocking. Likewise, at Valley, I haven't seen any photos showing something similar where W. Hemp trains can proceed straight through to the Far Rock branch without a reverse move at Valley Stream Sta. I could be wrong, maybe someone has a photo to show that this actually existed. It sure could have been useful today, offering a reliable north-south route could have attracted more ridership in these times. I get many folks who travel from Hicksville down to the Far Rock/ Montauk branch on a regular basis who have to trek all the way into Jamaica before heading back east. A big waste of time if you ask me.

Once again (we discussed this on the other thread) these connections DID exist.

Here's a Sanborn Fire Map of the Mineola connection:



If you look in "Steel Rails to the Sunrise" at the 1878 view photographed by George Brainard of the old wooden-framed Mineola Jct station shot from the original Mineola Blvd. overpass looking east, you can see part of this track connection in the left background.

The track stubbing just east of the "Railroad tool house & office" as indicated in the Sanborn map connected into the Oyster Bay branch in George Brainard's day, making a slight curve to the north, then connecting into the branch, allowing a westbound train to connect with the east leg of the wye, to head towards Hempstead without a reverse move in front of the depot.

And regarding Valley Stream, as Art Huneke said in his description, once the 4-tracking was completed through Valley Stream, it was no longer possible to perform this thru-connection to Far Rockaway without a reverse move.

Dave Keller

It indeed is sad that these connections aren't available anymore. They would help in imrpoving intra-island transit, something that LI really needs.

The Brainard photo to which I'm referring is in Ziel's "Victorian Stations of the LIRR" and NOT in "Steel Rails."

Sorry!

Terrific shot, showing the connection from an elevated perspective!!!!!

You can just visualize in your mind that westbound train come off the north siding, hit that curve,and swing around onto the OB branch, cross the main line tracks on the east leg of the wye and head south towards Hempstead!!!

Dave Keller

The thing that bothers me is - why where these connection abandoned (I guess in the 1920s?) - particularly the direct Mineola/Hicksville to Valley Stream via W. Hemsptead (which was the 1960s I guess) - I too know many who could have used this connection (myself included) over the years.
I guess it just boils down to "What where they thinking"
(although, I suppose it could be that the North-Short road routes of Nassau where uncongested enough back then that the trip was pretty quick via automobile, unlike now where they are a mess during the day, and so nobody would bother to take the train).

Thanks for the PC of old Nassau Dave, I never seen those before. It's such a shame that this is not around today. Like I said before, I do see quite a lot of folks who would have benefited from these connections if they were still here today.