CSX to Stop Blocking Quiet Crossing in Hamburg

Matt Langworthy wrote:And... as it so happens... I've spent some time at the Rogers Road crossing(s). There is a public park on the north side of Rogers Road, east of the NS ROW. There is also a sports field on the south side of Rogers Road, also east of the NS Row. So... right off the bat... there are very few residences in close proximity to NS and CSX on one side of the ROW at Rogers Road. Does that crossing need a quiet zone? Probably not....

If you spent time at that crossing, then you know they are not blowing horns ONLY AT the crossing. The horns go before and between the Rogers and Cloverbank crossings, up to a full mile in length. There are also hundreds of homes between these 2 roads on each side of the crossing. I spent last weekend on Morgan Park at a friends house. Believe me, there is plenty of noise going on.

If a little new technology with a quiet crossing installation can improve the quality of life of all the residents there, then do it

With all due respect, I don't want my already high tax dollars going toward it. The tracks were there first, and the homeowners chose to live there.....so that shouldn't our collective problem. I would think those horns are being blown for a reason.

That "little bit of technology" equals a lot of money that can be better used elsewhere, in my opinion.

Charlie

Also as a railroad employee, I have strong feelings against the quite zones. For one in Hamburg, it is a road by road, case by case basis. The tax payers pay the burden for crossing protection improvements. (It does not always include four quadrant gates and everything fancy). The money could be spent much wiser. The residents have to consider all of the other crossings in the town (meaning my shortline ones...as they are NOT part of the quite zone). Granted we do not run as many trains, or all hours of the night...but where does the non-sense stop?

I had a call from an editorial writer that wanted to be published in the Hamburg Sun that was for the quite zones. There are places where they can work, and as was stated there are times when the whistle will still be sounded. It is not total silence. The other improvement that seems interesting is the horn on the mast that directs the sound at the motorists, instead of us blowing 20 seconds before the crossing and filling the houses with noise so far before the crossing. I told the individual that he had to look at it from the railroad's point of view. Me as an engineer, my only weapon against STUPID motorists and the general public along the right of way is my horn. I asked, "are there engineer's that abuse it...." absolutely. Some like to hear it, some want the extra protection. I myself tend to be easy on the horn as I approach the crossing, unless I see traffic or individuals that are ignoring, or are oblivious to the approach of the train. In cases where some one is going to run the lights ahead of me, they are getting my whistle, full blast and as long as I can hold it. I told the writer that it was my only weapon. We all know about trains and their stopping ability at speed. It isn't going to happen. I HAVE TO LIVE WITH WHAT HAPPENS IN A CROSSING ACCIDENT. It's a good chance that I am going to survive and that I have to deal with the death and destruction afterwards.

From my point, the whistle is my last line of defense. If they take it away it makes my job tougher. I'm sure that I can be easier on the neighbors ears at some points. Couldn't that money be better spent on making sure visibility is good at grade crossings and that the public is better trained to respect those crossings? How about enforce the vehicle and traffic laws and start fining these motorists who constantly ignore the signals we are giving them. You can't force those trying to do right to do more to cover up for the ones that don't pay attention. Again, I know there are a few bad actor railroad employees....but stop and think where the attitude comes from first....

why don't stupid people build there houses with sound proofing materials? that would be far cheaper than the rest of the state taxes from going up on behalf of a bunch of morons and there pissing and moaning over a little noise. My Grandfather lives at the end of a runway that gets some use at Sky Harbor International Airport in Arizona and all the houses there in his nabour hood were required to be sound proofed according to the Home Owners Association during construction. He also has an active Union Pacific (Ex SP) line 2 miles South of his location that's vary active.

MarkT wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote:And... as it so happens... I've spent some time at the Rogers Road crossing(s). There is a public park on the north side of Rogers Road, east of the NS ROW. There is also a sports field on the south side of Rogers Road, also east of the NS Row. So... right off the bat... there are very few residences in close proximity to NS and CSX on one side of the ROW at Rogers Road. Does that crossing need a quiet zone? Probably not....

If you spent time at that crossing, then you know they are not blowing horns ONLY AT the crossing. The horns go before and between the Rogers and Cloverbank crossings, up to a full mile in length. There are also hundreds of homes between these 2 roads on each side of the crossing. I spent last weekend on Morgan Park at a friends house. Believe me, there is plenty of noise going on.

If a little new technology with a quiet crossing installation can improve the quality of life of all the residents there, then do it

There is no "if" about me spending time at the Rogers Road crossing. I've been there a number of times... with the most recent occasion being a frigid Friday at the beginning of spring:

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab13 ... C00180.jpg

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab13 ... C00189.jpg

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab13 ... C03856.jpg

Photos taken by me 3/25/2011 in Hamburg, NY.

Some trains blew for the crossing while others did not... which makes your "plenty of noise" a tad inaccurate.

Also, the aerial view of the Rogers Road/Cloverbank Road at http://www.mapsonus.com/mapsonus/ shows alot of green space on the east side of the NS ROW in Hamburg.

Furthermore, virtually all of the housing on the west side of the Rogers Road crossing looks like it was built after World War II... which means the Chicago Line and the ex-Nickel Plate main predate them by 65-150 years. The "quality of life" argument really doesn't hold up well when developers choose to build homes near the tracks, which in turn have been sold by real estate agents who knew about the active RR lines to buyers who also knew about the passing trains. The whiney residents get ZERO sympathy from me. To be 100% frank... I blame them, rather than Senator Schumer, because he wouldn't even be involved if the NIMBYs weren't crying like school children over supposedly spilled milk.

For pete's sake, two engineers have weighed in against quiet zones for very practical reasons. If a homeowner can't understand Roadster's or BSOR's logic... then the homeowner and his/her family should MOVE. This really bothers me. I'd be willing to bet the NIMBYs haven't said a word about the noise from tractor trailers... which are far more numerous than RR locomotives. The quiet zone debate is more than a matter of who funds the project. Train horns are a matter of real safety. Shame on the NIMBYs who don't understand that!!!

If the technology was to come along that made jet noise at an airport on the other side of town quieter, would those people in favor of a railroad quiet zone be willing to fund it? If so at what cost per home, or resident? Where does it start? Where does it end? It makes your brain hurt just thinking about it. How about those noisey power boats down by the river? How about those loud motorcycles that blow down the road past my house in the middle of the night? Now how about those crickets in the woods outside that keep me up with all the chirping they do? I want someone else to help me pay for it. Oh wait a minute I moved here, that was my choice.
The only way it could be fair would be to have a public vote on it and establish some sort of boundary where the people living within it would have their tax raised to pay for it themselves after their vote.

Unfortunately the modern American way is to be ignorant, then complain about the consequences of being ignorant. Move to a house where there are noises, smells, sights you don't like, and everyone else has to cater to your complaint. IMHO people like that should be laughed out of court and out of town, but common sense escapes there too.

why not build bridges instead of building new crossings make the towns people pay for it? It would only be a matter of time before some moron finds away to drive around or plow threw the gates trying to beat a train and the RR's will be back to using there horns.

scharnhorst wrote:why not build bridges instead of building new crossings make the towns people pay for it? It would only be a matter of time before some moron finds away to drive around or plow threw the gates trying to beat a train and the RR's will be back to using there horns.

towns, counties, and NYS cant afford to build new bridges now... they dont have $$$$

sd80mac wrote:

scharnhorst wrote:why not build bridges instead of building new crossings make the towns people pay for it? It would only be a matter of time before some moron finds away to drive around or plow threw the gates trying to beat a train and the RR's will be back to using there horns.

towns, counties, and NYS cant afford to build new bridges now... they dont have $$$$

then who's got all the money to do all this work on the RR Crossings?

scharnhorst wrote:

sd80mac wrote:

scharnhorst wrote:why not build bridges instead of building new crossings make the towns people pay for it? It would only be a matter of time before some moron finds away to drive around or plow threw the gates trying to beat a train and the RR's will be back to using there horns.

towns, counties, and NYS cant afford to build new bridges now... they dont have $$$$

then who's got all the money to do all this work on the RR Crossings?

RR crossing are CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and CSX are responsible to maintenance them, i believe

sd80mac wrote:RR crossing are CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and CSX are responsible to maintenance them, i believe

NS is responsible for their own crossings in Hamburg, as well.

Matt Langworthy wrote:

sd80mac wrote:RR crossing are CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and CSX are responsible to maintenance them, i believe

NS is responsible for their own crossings in Hamburg, as well.

thanks for additional comment!!! I am so used to this area that I'm thinking of the area I ventured out to instead of hamburg which was the subject of this thread!!!

sd80mac wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote:

sd80mac wrote:RR crossing are CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and CSX are responsible to maintenance them, i believe

NS is responsible for their own crossings in Hamburg, as well.

thanks for additional comment!!! I am so used to this area that I'm thinking of the area I ventured out to instead of hamburg which was the subject of this thread!!!

No problem. Like you, I live in the Rochester area. I enjoy watching CSX here in Monroe County... but I tend to seek out NS or the local shortlines when I head out to Buffalo for a change of pace. Just a guess,.. but I figure NS is running about 14-20 trains per day through Hamburg, including locals. For that reason, I strongly oppose a quiet zone on the ex-Nickel Plate crossings. Less than half of those trains run during times when most residents would be sleeping (based on my experiences in the area) .

That said, I don't think CSX's in Hamburg warrant a quiet zone, either.

Matt Langworthy wrote:

sd80mac wrote: thanks for additional comment!!! I am so used to this area that I'm thinking of the area I ventured out to instead of hamburg which was the subject of this thread!!!

No problem. Like you, I live in the Rochester area. I enjoy watching CSX here in Monroe County... but I tend to seek out NS or the local shortlines when I head out to Buffalo for a change of pace. Just a guess,.. but I figure NS is running about 14-20 trains per day through Hamburg, including locals. For that reason, I strongly oppose a quiet zone on the ex-Nickel Plate crossings. Less than half of those trains run during times when most residents would be sleeping (based on my experiences in the area) .

That said, I don't think CSX's in Hamburg warrant a quiet zone, either.

20's was during the CR days... the # of NS had dropped big time since day 1. I camp out at Brocton, Northeast, bayview rd. It's the not same as it was during CR days when both CR and NS had A LOT more trains than CSX/NS have now...