Lansdale-Quakertown Corridor Alternatives Analysis

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:Once in a blue moon, SEPTA does make decisions that make me smile. I remember some time ago, I want to say somewhere between '02 and '05, Upper Saucon Twp. wanted to build a new road to connect Passer Road with Rte. 309. I can't remember if it had anything to do with the Lutron facility or not. The new road would have crossed the rail line and SEPTA said that the new road couldn't cross "at grade." Since an overpass or underpass substantially raised the costs the road was never built. I got into a debate with coworker who railed (no pun intended) against SEPTA for blocking the project.

It's not common that SEPTA was willing to take that firm of a stance concerning the integrity of the discontinued diesel lines' integrity. What happened at Preston Lane on the DeSales Univ. campus is almost the exact opposite of what you described here. Even at this late date I'm still surprised (and even somewhat impressed) that DeSales was able to get what it wanted from SEPTA.

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:As for the pull/pull... It was either '78 or '79, my dad's friend was in town and he's a railfan. So we planned a trip for a Saturday, from Bethlehem to Reading Terminal to take the Market-Frankford so we could ride the Red Arrow. Originally the plan was to go Reading once we got to Philly, because he wanted to ride the pull/pull. My dad called someone at either Conrail or SEPTA (he worked for Bethlehem Steel and knew someone who had the right contact info) to see if it would be in service that weekend. The guy whom he spoke with said he'd put it on the Bethlehem run. Sure enough, were standing on the platform at Union Station when we look down towards 3rd St. and here comes this bohemeth rumbling towards us. When we got to Hatfield, a woman got on the train complaining that it was late. The conductor told her that it was the train's fault, (I guess the acceleration was less than stellar)... This train shouldn't be on this run... Why did they do that... My dad did all he could to not burst out in laughter. My brother & I didn't know what the joke was, and it was only later that he told us why he thought it was so funny.

So just this once, you didn't live up to your forum username? [-chuckle-] Seriously, that is a very funny tale; thank you for sharing it!

Do you recall if the pull-pull train was still wearing its rather worn-down, two-tone green Reading Company paint on the outside when you took that trip, or had the locomotives and coaches been repainted into the SEPTA scheme? When paint was new-ish, the mostly bright-white train looked absolutely dazzling.

Franklin Gowen wrote: It's not common that SEPTA was willing to take that firm of a stance concerning the integrity of the discontinued diesel lines' integrity. What happened at Preston Lane on the DeSales Univ. campus is almost the exact opposite of what you described here. Even at this late date I'm still surprised (and even somewhat impressed) that DeSales was able to get what it wanted from SEPTA.

I'll again tell my story about Mr. Nolan mentioning to me that there's an agreement in place that makes DeSales pay for a bridge to be installed if service is reinstated on that part of line. Because of the trackage rights arrangement, East Penn was supposedly notified of situations involving even the out of service portion of the Bethlehem Branch.

I don't have any other information besides him telling me, but he was a pretty darn good source. Seems to me a contract like that would have to exist somewhere, and maybe also have some escrow money involved.

I wish he still owned the East Penn.

Typically, with an agreement where someone agrees to put in a bridge if service is restored, the agreement relies on that party's good name to follow through on it. SEPTA probably would have insisted on the bridge up front if, say, a developer had tried to put in a new road instead of the University.

Franklin Gowen wrote: Do you recall if the pull-pull train was still wearing its rather worn-down, two-tone green Reading Company paint on the outside when you took that trip, or had the locomotives and coaches been repainted into the SEPTA scheme? When paint was new-ish, the mostly bright-white train looked absolutely dazzling.

No, it was still in the Reading scheme. I was never a big fan of the SEPTA paint jobs. I always thought it made the trains look like their buses.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/crazybarry/4689210557/
http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/ ... TA1978.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81055481@N00/3239158555/

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:I was never a big fan of the SEPTA paint jobs. I always thought it made the trains look like their buses.

All part of SEPTA's grand scheme for the future. When the last rail line has been bustituted, only we railfans will notice.

[In all seriousness, some years ago a coworker mentioned to me that he would be taking a bus to West Philly after work. I suggested that the Subway-Surface lines would be faster and he said yes, that's what he was riding - "you know, the buses that run in the tunnels next to the subway". This was a guy who had a master's degree and full certification as an actuary, but he never ever noticed the rails under the cars. (Whimper)^2 ]

[In all seriousness, some years ago a coworker mentioned to me that he would be taking a bus to West Philly after work. I suggested that the Subway-Surface lines would be faster and he said yes, that's what he was riding - "you know, the buses that run in the tunnels next to the subway". This was a guy who had a master's degree and full certification as an actuary, but he never ever noticed the rails under the cars. (Whimper)^2 ][/quote]

I guess that makes the Paris and Montreal metros really big articulated buses!

[In all seriousness, some years ago a coworker mentioned to me that he would be taking a bus to West Philly after work. I suggested that the Subway-Surface lines would be faster and he said yes, that's what he was riding - "you know, the buses that run in the tunnels next to the subway". This was a guy who had a master's degree and full certification as an actuary, but he never ever noticed the rails under the cars. (Whimper)^2 ]

I guess that makes the Paris and Montreal metros really BIG articulated buses!

BoxallsAccommodation wrote:[In all seriousness, some years ago a coworker mentioned to me that he would be taking a bus to West Philly after work. I suggested that the Subway-Surface lines would be faster and he said yes, that's what he was riding - "you know, the buses that run in the tunnels next to the subway". This was a guy who had a master's degree and full certification as an actuary, but he never ever noticed the rails under the cars. (Whimper)^2 ]

He must have been a Wharton grad... I've worked with two Wharton grads at two different jobs and both were completely clueless. They both eventually got fired for incompetence!

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:He must have been a Wharton grad... I've worked with two Wharton grads at two different jobs and both were completely clueless.

And their hockey teams can't count to six...

AlexC wrote:Ahem.....

They can't! It should be pretty [darn] simple. A coupla defensemen and a forward line when we line up for a faceoff, but those [knuckleheads] can't even get a simple line change right without working it out on a spreadsheet...

LOL!

Anyway, I wonder if some of the toll revenue from the NE Extension could help to pay for the construction costs of the extended line. It would be nice to see more of that money remain in the area instead of going statewide to areas that don't want to be tolled but expect great roads on turnpike commuters' dime.

Tritransit Area wrote: Anyway, I wonder if some of the toll revenue from the NE Extension could help to pay for the construction costs of the extended line. It would be nice to see more of that money remain in the area instead of going statewide to areas that don't want to be tolled but expect great roads on turnpike commuters' dime.

Are you trying to say that your tolls are going away from the turnpike? I was certainly under the impression that toll revenue from the turnpike definitely stayed with the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission. The tolls are intended to maintain the toll roads only.

I'd be REALLY surprised if toll money was doled out to non-PTC projects. It's my understanding that fuel taxes and other fees are used to fund the general highway system, with the interstates receiving additional federal funds.

This was the case until Act 44 came into play. Part of the funding source for Act 44 was to increase tolls on the turnpike (they jumped up 25% one year!) and use the additional revenue to help with the transportation funding crisis for PennDOT and the local transit systems statewide. The state took an advance from the Turnpike Commission to fund transit and PennDOT, but when they weren't able to toll I-80 to get additional revenue, the amount of funding for transit and PennDOT dropped to about half of what they were hoping for, and here we are at square one with another transportation funding crisis.

If anyone else has more details or if I'm mistaken, please let me know! Here's some information from the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission website itself that tell the whole story: http://www.paturnpike.com/toll/toll_faq.aspx

Why should my toll dollars be used to fix roads that I might never use?

For most of the PTC’s 70 years of operation, every toll dollar collected was reinvested in the system. That changed with the passage of Act 44 in 2007 when the Pennsylvania General Assembly made the PTC a full funding partner with PennDOT. The PTC, as a creation of the General Assembly, is charged with implementing this statute. Its strong history of financial stewardship and high bond ratings has enabled it to honor the Act 44 commitments. Pennsylvania is not the only state that has turned to toll revenues as a source for additional revenue for transportation systems. As gasoline tax revenues continue to shrink when compared to the growing needs, many states and municipalities around the nation are exploring new and innovative funding streams.

Tritransit Area wrote:This was the case until Act 44 came into play. Part of the funding source for Act 44 was to increase tolls on the turnpike (they jumped up 25% one year!) and use the additional revenue to help with the transportation funding crisis for PennDOT and the local transit systems statewide. The state took an advance from the Turnpike Commission to fund transit and PennDOT, but when they weren't able to toll I-80 to get additional revenue, the amount of funding for transit and PennDOT dropped to about half of what they were hoping for, and here we are at square one with another transportation funding crisis.

If anyone else has more details or if I'm mistaken, please let me know! Here's some information from the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission website itself that tell the whole story: http://www.paturnpike.com/toll/toll_faq.aspx

Why should my toll dollars be used to fix roads that I might never use?

For most of the PTC’s 70 years of operation, every toll dollar collected was reinvested in the system. That changed with the passage of Act 44 in 2007 when the Pennsylvania General Assembly made the PTC a full funding partner with PennDOT. The PTC, as a creation of the General Assembly, is charged with implementing this statute. Its strong history of financial stewardship and high bond ratings has enabled it to honor the Act 44 commitments. Pennsylvania is not the only state that has turned to toll revenues as a source for additional revenue for transportation systems. As gasoline tax revenues continue to shrink when compared to the growing needs, many states and municipalities around the nation are exploring new and innovative funding streams.

I have to admit that I wasn't really paying attention to the Act 44 stuff, besides the attempt to toll I-80 and lease/sell the turnpike. Wow, what a sucky deal for the turnpike, being forced to subsidize state-wide infrastructure.

Having grown up in Western Pennsylvania (a.k.a. "the good side of the state"), we used to complain about our taxes being used to build stuff in filth-a-delphia, so I guess somebody decided to get even.

Thanks for informing me about this stuff. What a lame transportation funding situation we have in our commonwealth....