Newtown diesel line questions

scotty269 wrote:

rbreslow wrote: On the link he put up it shows that septa has a lot of Diesel Locomotives from reading that are serviceable. If you need more info PM me.

Which ones? Are we looking at the same link?

At this page it shows where reading rolling stock went and if it its serviceable and in use: http://www.readingrailroad.org/survivin ... equip.html

rbreslow wrote:

A partial list of the disposition of the cars can be found here: http://www.readingrailroad.org/survivin ... equip.html.

In addition, 9164 was severely damaged in the January 1982 collision with a gasoline tanker in Southampton and subsequently scrapped.[/quote]Wow, looking at the link you posted Septa has a lot of serviceable locos that I have never seen.[/quote]

What?[/quote]
On the link he put up it shows that septa has a lot of Diesel Locomotives from reading that are serviceable. If you need more info PM me.[/quote]

Remember that the list and link I posted are historical listings showing where the remaining RDC's are today. The only other ex-Reading power that Septa had its' hands on were the three FP-7's and they all belong to historical societies. None of that equipment is either on or available to Septa today.

dreese_us wrote:They did run the rdc's into Reading Terminal from Newtown. Run through service ended with the opening of the center city commuter tunnel. The Newtown Line was operated as a shuttle between Newtown and Fox Chase after Reading Terminal closed.

That is partially correct. RDCs ran directly into Reading Terminal during the rush hour up until SEPTA started the Fox Chase Rapid Transit Line. During that era, no RDCs travelled directly into Reading Terminal because SEPTA ran the rapid transit part and Conrail ran the Fox Chase-Reading Terminal electric part. Theoretically, RDCs could have continued into the terminal, but Conrail would not allow the rapid transit operators go south of Fox Chase.

dreese_us wrote:All work on the line was completed between the end of Conrail and beginning of Septa operations. The line was completely shutdown while Septa installed new ties, ballast and grade crossings with gates and signals. This also helped to drive riders away because of the temporary shutdown. If I remember correctly, the work performed in the early 90's was done by PennDOT. For some reason the state felt the need to paint RR crossing on the road at all crossings. Shortly after they were painted, the state removed the white paint warnings.

That is incorrect. There were no gates anywhere on the line until after the Jan 1982 crash in Southampton. Then Southampton received gates. Otherwise, lights were the order of the day. Several crossings (all Newtown crossings, Holland Station, Creek Road, Old Jordan Road) only had crossbucks. It was a cheap operation.

aem7 wrote:(1) Did the RDC cars run only between Newtown and Fox Chase or did they continue on to Center City? This may be a stupid question, but humor me.

RDC service to Newtown that was operated by Conrail ended in August 1981. As previously stated, the RDC's did operate thru to Rdg Terminal with several trips turning at Fox Chase.

Not quite. RDC service to Newtown that was operated by Conrail ended July 1, 1981. SEPTA used the summer to refurbish the line for $650,000; RDC service was re-established on October 5, 1981 using BSS motormen trained over a six-week period. Those trains terminated at Fox Chase and the entire operation ceased on January 14, 1983 when the last operable RDC stopped working.
There is great history at the PA-TEC website: http://www.newtownline.pa-tec.org/history.html and wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Chase_ ... ansit_Line

aem7 wrote:(3) About how frequent was service between Fox Chase and Newtown?

During the RDG and CR days:
3 trips in the morning, one around noon, one around 3 pm, and then 3 or four at night up to about 10pm. Less frequent on weekends.

Schedules can be found at this PA-TEC link: http://www.newtownline.pa-tec.org/resources.html. SEPTA actually operated more trains than RDC and CR. This had more to do with their transit-like heavy headway mentality than actually wanting to serve customers and make the line accessible.

aem7 wrote:(4) In mzu's 5/28/07 thread about walking the line, jfrey40535 posted some pics of the Newtown station with comments about the train yard there. I'm guessing this meant there could have been more than one train on the Newtown portion at a time -- if so, where were there sidings for the trains to pass each other? And I guess they yarded the RDC cars at Newtown overnight?

At one time, up to 5 RDC cars could be stored on the station track. Probably got cut back later. The method of operation was by timetable schedule time only with a train register at Fox Chase and one at Newtown. Extra trains had to operate with a Train Order. There was no "passing of trains" allowed on the line.

Hope my answers help.

In mzu's 5/28/07 thread about walking the line, jfrey40535 posted some pics of the Newtown station with comments about the train yard there. I'm guessing this meant there could have been more than one train on the Newtown portion at a time -- if so, where were there sidings for the trains to pass each other? And I guess they yarded the RDC cars at Newtown overnight?

Bryn Athyn had a siding just north of the station. I'm pretty sure it was removed before the Budd RDCs were even built, though.

The only true passing siding on the line by the 70's was (and still is) at Southampton. There were stub ended sidings at Huntingdon Valley and Southampton, the latter serving James River Corporation (paper distributor).

After looking at the "HS-1" line timetable, I've got to say that the Fox Chase-Newtown service has to be the weirdest kind of rapid transit I've ever heard about. Even though it was operated by transit employees, you paid your fare on the train, rode on Budd RDCs, there were three different fare zones and trains ran less frequently than the electric commuter lines during the rush (though more frequently than under Reading/Conrail ownership). No wonder the service was canned after just two years. Was any thought ever given towards making the Newtown Line (by that, I mean the whole line, including the stations south of Fox Chase) into a real rapid transit line? Perhaps something along the lines of the Route 101 and 102 trolleys or even the pre-1958 Route 6 trolley that ran from Broad and Olney to Willow Grove?

#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:After looking at the "HS-1" line timetable, I've got to say that the Fox Chase-Newtown service has to be the weirdest kind of rapid transit I've ever heard about. Even though it was operated by transit employees, you paid your fare on the train, rode on Budd RDCs, there were three different fare zones and trains ran less frequently than the electric commuter lines during the rush (though more frequently than under Reading/Conrail ownership). No wonder the service was canned after just two years. Was any thought ever given towards making the Newtown Line (by that, I mean the whole line, including the stations south of Fox Chase) into a real rapid transit line? Perhaps something along the lines of the Route 101 and 102 trolleys or even the pre-1958 Route 6 trolley that ran from Broad and Olney to Willow Grove?

If anything, I think the whole HS-1 operation was nothing more than an attempt to stick it to the Unions (I want to say the BLE, but I'm not too sure...), rather than an attempt to 'tranistize' the R8. SEPTA wanted to show the Union that they could run the whole system without them.