Prospects for any NJT Capital projects

Hawaiitiki wrote:In "When life gives you lemons..." kind of mentality, does anyone honestly think the killing of the current ARC will spur any other cheaper NJT Capital Projects? I feel like added capacity and flexibility on the Waterfront Connection would be a natural consolation prize, as Hoboken's relevance has certainly got another lease on life with the killing of ARC. Maybe the Port Authority will speed up the Bayonne Bridge Project or extending PATH to EWR, since they won't have to spend their money on ARC.

Although I would LOVE to see Hoboken play an increasingly more important role, I doubt that... As some NJT employees already mentioned in here, there just isn't the capacity. I do think if they wanted to they could increase service into the Terminal on weekends though!!

blockline4180 wrote:Well, I'm sorry, but she is right on Tom V!
How many times do we have to mention in here that ARC in its current form is and was flawed!! I guess you wouldn't mind getting off in a deep cavern tunnel everyday(well if you are a commuter) and go up an enormous amount of escalators just to get anywhere! Not only that, but since it isn't sharing any tracks with Amtrak how does one vacationer carry all their luggage up to Penn Station if they want to go to Albany or any points north and east, without much of a hassle?? Oh yeah, what about the subway connections????

Yes this forum and others mentioned many times that ARC was flawed. And you think anything that will be built in the future will not be flawed in this, the most densely populated parts of the country? Especially if NJT does not own the process 100%

However, no one offered more realistic alternatives. How can you make a tunnel to go to the existing Penn station? First of all it is over capacity and can not take more trains. Then it is very shallow. The existing tunnel was built using the cut and cover method that no one will tolerate in Manhattan right now. So any station that you build has to be much lower than NYP. And then at that depth access to GC is being blocked by the water main lines. So the only other alternative other than ARC is to build a new lower level station directly under Penn. It would have easier subway connections but it is still deep under ground. And it might be more expensive to add another level to NYP than to build a brand new station.

Now with ARC "killed" (or at least defunded for now), the only viable transportation solution I can see is for PANYNJ to build a fourth tube for the Lincoln Tunnel south of the current southern tube and using one tube for buses only at all times. If rail can't be improved, bus capacity should be the next best thing.

Tri-State Tom wrote:

How about a poll for his wife, since apparently she's responsible for killing the project.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/chri ... xanRlGSAeO

I would love to see the response when pollers ask, how do you feel about the Governor's wife killing ARC?..

Well, as a regular train commuter, her cred is as good as any other

But a recent Quinnipiac University poll showed New Jersey voters agreed, 53 to 37 percent, with Christie's controversial call.

I stand corrected....51% approval is now 53% approval.

The thing that irks me about Mrs. Christie being against the tunnel (all her points are correct, and we have been saying them here for a long time) is was Mrs. Christie against it and then Mr. Christie against it because of that? Was the money, or lack there of, a convenient excuse? Cause judging by what has been published in various articles, etc, all the reports showed it was on budget, and on time, and had state and governor support, and it would be silly to think that there woudln't be overages at some point, but to award all these contracts, start construction, etc then all of a sudden decide to halt it and then suspsend it, and pull the carpet out from under it, no matter how flawed it might or might not have been, is a little fishy, IMO of course.

I think it would have been better if Mr. Christie said nothing about his wife being against the project. Kinda sorta gives/reinforces the illusion that no matter what anyone says, or the legitamacy or necessity of something, what the Christie's (Mr. and Mrs. Gov I guess you could say) want, is what they get, and to hell with everything/one else.

Jtgshu wrote:

Tri-State Tom wrote:

How about a poll for his wife, since apparently she's responsible for killing the project.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/chri ... xanRlGSAeO

I would love to see the response when pollers ask, how do you feel about the Governor's wife killing ARC?..

Well, as a regular train commuter, her cred is as good as any other

But a recent Quinnipiac University poll showed New Jersey voters agreed, 53 to 37 percent, with Christie's controversial call.

I stand corrected....51% approval is now 53% approval.

The thing that irks me about Mrs. Christie being against the tunnel (all her points are correct, and we have been saying them here for a long time) is was Mrs. Christie against it and then Mr. Christie against it because of that? Was the money, or lack there of, a convenient excuse? Cause judging by what has been published in various articles, etc, all the reports showed it was on budget, and on time, and had state and governor support, and it would be silly to think that there woudln't be overages at some point, but to award all these contracts, start construction, etc then all of a sudden decide to halt it and then suspsend it, and pull the carpet out from under it, no matter how flawed it might or might not have been, is a little fishy, IMO of course.

I think it would have been better if Mr. Christie said nothing about his wife being against the project. Kinda sorta gives/reinforces the illusion that no matter what anyone says, or the legitamacy or necessity of something, what the Christie's (Mr. and Mrs. Gov I guess you could say) want, is what they get, and to hell with everything/one else.

My friend and I were discussing this this afternoon, and we said the same thing - it's what the Christie's want -> (personal agenda).

Ok, moreso what Mrs. Christie wants.

Back on topic;

I think at some point the Governor is going to make a big "look what we're going to do with the ARC funding" speech, with that said the $3 Billion in Federal money is gone. The $2.75 Billion in State funding is going to the Transportation trust fund, nothing exciting will come out of that. Lot's of bridge repairs, road work, bus improvements etc.. that the gas tax is supposed to fund. The only thing rail to come out of the State's ARC funding will probably be more multi-levels, high level platforms, parking garages etc.. No system expansion, ie. MOM, West Trenton, Lackawanna cut-off etc... *If* a project were to get funding, it would probably be the Northern Branch LRT. But I doubt any project will move ahead under this Administration.

That leaves the Port Authority and their $3 Billion they dedicated to ARC, I would bet as much as half of that might go to the raising of the Bayonne Bridge the PA has committed to (at the Governor's directing) but of which has yet to receive funding. That leaves somewhere between $1.5 and $2 Billion of Port Authority funding to spend in NJ, some items I could see the Port Authority committing that remaining funding towards;

Northern Branch LRT, PATH Extension to EWR, new Terminal A at EWR.

Here's a list of all the Capital Improvements in progress to date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKbU4v3NSg
Interesting that they show 5148 as the thumbnail for Newark Penn Station...

nomis wrote:Here's a list of all the Capital Improvements in progress to date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKbU4v3NSg
Interesting that they show 5148 as the thumbnail for Newark Penn Station...

Those are projects funded by the Federal Stimulus program, none of those have to do with ARC. Those projects were started under Corzine and most are almost complete. The Hoboken terminal renovation/ferry slips project is a Port Authority project that has been underway for the past 5-6 years, again nothing to do with ARC.

Tom V wrote:Those are projects funded by the Federal Stimulus program, none of those have to do with ARC. Those projects were started under Corzine and most are almost complete. The Hoboken terminal renovation/ferry slips project is a Port Authority project that has been underway for the past 5-6 years, again nothing to do with ARC.

I do not believe you're getting the gist of the thread here. The title is "Prospects for any NJT Capital Projects," not "State funded projects vs. Federal" Regardless of who is funding them, I believe that Mr. Nomis was merely trying to show, as stated in the video, that there are more projects slated than ARC. I recall there previously being some doubt on this forum if most of these projects would continue.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Somerville began well before Federal money was coming in.

I'm talking prospects for new projects post ARC cancellation, those projects in the NJ Transit PPT were all started either during the Corzine administration or prior to the cancellation of ARC.

Tom V wrote:I'm talking prospects for new projects post ARC cancellation, those projects in the NJ Transit PPT were all started either during the Corzine administration or prior to the cancellation of ARC.

Yeah?? So what! ARC is now DEAD and there is nothing anyone can do about it as long as Mr. And Mrs. Christie are running things!

Tom V wrote:I'm talking prospects for new projects post ARC cancellation, those projects in the NJ Transit PPT were all started either during the Corzine administration or prior to the cancellation of ARC.

Well ARC was only canceled a few weeks ago. Did you expect some capital projects to come out of nowhere between then and now?

Fund the light rail line from Camden to Glassboro/Rowan U.Traffice is horrible on rt 42.The Patco line does excellent and this will to.

Defiant wrote: Yes this forum and others mentioned many times that ARC was flawed. And you think anything that will be built in the future will not be flawed in this, the most densely populated parts of the country? Especially if NJT does not own the process 100%

However, no one offered more realistic alternatives. How can you make a tunnel to go to the existing Penn station? First of all it is over capacity and can not take more trains. Then it is very shallow. The existing tunnel was built using the cut and cover method that no one will tolerate in Manhattan right now. So any station that you build has to be much lower than NYP. And then at that depth access to GC is being blocked by the water main lines. So the only other alternative other than ARC is to build a new lower level station directly under Penn. It would have easier subway connections but it is still deep under ground. And it might be more expensive to add another level to NYP than to build a brand new station.

Very well said!

Just throwing this out there, but why cant the existing PATH tunnels be converted to handle NJT trains to Manhattan, and use the existing infrastructure , to find there way to NYP ?