Electrify the Corridor

The corridor already shaves 3 hours of driving time between NY , Detroit & Chicago what would high speed rail do to this. Canada already has the Queens ear and money and is more European then the US so High Speed Rail should be a no brainer.

Buffalobill wrote:The corridor already shaves 3 hours of driving time between NY , Detroit & Chicago what would high speed rail do to this. Canada already has the Queens ear and money and is more European then the US so High Speed Rail should be a no brainer.

Huh? This makes no sense whatsoever.

No...Canada has a cheap surplus of electric power and a number of citys close enough that high speed electrc rail would work. Also GO just boaght the GO main line and commuter rail runs best with eletrict power

Buffalobill wrote:The corridor already shaves 3 hours of driving time between NY , Detroit & Chicago what would high speed rail do to this. Canada already has the Queens ear and money and is more European then the US so High Speed Rail should be a no brainer.

First off, how is NY/Detroit/Chicago in anyway relevant to VIA Rail's Quebec-City - Windsor corridor? Last time I checked, none of those cities were on that route. I suppose if you were driving from Montreal to one of those cities, but you should really be more specific if that's what you mean.

Secondly, the "Queen's ear"??? Do you not know anything about how Canada works? We do not receive money from England. The only connection we still have to the British Monarchy is purely symbolic. The Queen has no realistic power over anything in Canada, nor does she have the realistic option of siphoning British funds off to us. On top of that, while we might be more European than the states, we are far more American than Europe (if you get what I mean). Our rail system is not set up anything like Europe, nor is our population distribution. While high speed rail would indeed make sense in the QC-Windsor Corridor, it has nothing at all to do with us being more "European".

Also, you speak as though we have all this money available...why then is VIA Rail continually crippled by low government funding? Yes, we could have had high speed rail here decades ago, if the governments hadn't continuously cut routes, cut funding, and set back the rail system in much the way the US government has done to Amtrak. The current government gave VIA more money than they've ever been given at once before, and all they could do with it was rebuild most of their fleet (locos and coaches) and rebuild a lot of stations and infrastructure. It's nowhere near the sort of funding a high-speed rail project would need.

Buffalobill wrote:No...Canada has a cheap surplus of electric power and a number of citys close enough that high speed electrc rail would work. Also GO just boaght the GO main line and commuter rail runs best with eletrict power

Yes, it's true that high speed rail could be feasible between Toronto and Montreal or even Calgary and Edmonton. Both have been proposed, and a study is still underway about the T.O.-MTL line. However, what exactly is this "suprlus cheap electric power" you're talking about? Last time I checked, power here was neither particularly cheap, or in surplus. Yes, Quebec does have massive hydro projects, but do recall, they're selling most of that to the States. So in order to reclaim this "surplus cheap power", they'd have to cut off a significant part of the northern US market, which I doubt our friends to the south would be too pleased about.

If you really have some sort of argument, try to say it clearly and concisely, instead of making random nonsensical points. This forum could be a perfectly sensible discussion on the possibility of high speed rail in Canada, but your postings are not in any way helpful, nor enlightening.

The way certain things are mentioned seems a bit odd....and who'd use the Quebec-Windsor corridor to get between New York and Chicago? (unless he means just new york STATE...and taking the train Niagara to Oakville and then connecting to Windsor, then taking taxi or bus across to Detroit, then hopping the Wolverine)

Anyways, the odd message aside, I agree that the corridor should be electrified.

Possible problem: The majority of it is a CN main freight line! Any electrification would have to accommodate double-stacks. Solution: Have really high catenary, and any electric locos and/or EMUS would use "giraffe" high-reach pantographs.

Queen's Ear? Euopean? Don't quite get it.

But electrification is what we should add....I read somewhere that at one point they were considering making an electric-loco version of the LRC. But this never materialized.

Actually, what happened to that 125 mph Bombardier (spelling?) engine that kinda looked like an Acela Express Power Car or HHP-8 electric in States? Would Canada be better off on an incremental approach for achieving high speed rail? There does seem to be a relatively large chunk of straight ROW from Montreal to Toronto for incremental improvements (tilting trains, a diesel train that could reach 125 mph for starters etc.). Not sure if the LRC coaches tilt or could be certified for 125 mph running.

It would be nice to see the Edmonton - Calgary Route come through!!!

Agree with you there. Rather than this chit-chat that comes up every so often, someone should go ahead and create..."The Western Corridor"...ideally electrified.
What would be the best name? And should it just be Calgary to Edmonton? Or should its ends serve smaller cities (We have the Quebec-Windsor corridor, not the Montreal-Toronto corridor, after all, and there's branches to places like Sarnia and Niagara Falls)

We should electrify the "Western Corridor" (working title), and at least the main spine of the Quebec-Windsor Corridor. Are there any other "corridors" that should exist in Canada? (as far as I know, none exist)

In Eastern Canada especially...we can get tons of electricity from a relatively clean source (except there's the initial flooding problems)....why not put some of it to moving us around, and making us less dependent on oil?

jp1822 wrote:Actually, what happened to that 125 mph Bombardier (spelling?) engine that kinda looked like an Acela Express Power Car or HHP-8 electric in States? Would Canada be better off on an incremental approach for achieving high speed rail? There does seem to be a relatively large chunk of straight ROW from Montreal to Toronto for incremental improvements (tilting trains, a diesel train that could reach 125 mph for starters etc.). Not sure if the LRC coaches tilt or could be certified for 125 mph running.

I'm not sure whatever happened to the Bombardier JetTrain (that's what you were referring to), which was essentially a diesel turbo powered version of the Acela. Amtrak tested it but didn't buy, and I don't know if VIA ever gave it any thought.

The Quebec City-Windsor Corridor could definitely accommodate faster trains, with appropriate improvements, but it's not at that point right now. The LRCs used to tilt, but the active banking system proved to be far too problematic and expensive to maintain, so it has been deactivated and the rebuilt coaches will have the entire system removed. As has been pointed too, good super-elevation can provide much the same effect (for passenger comfort). Right now, the LRCs have recently been limited to 90mph in the corridor, while the Renaissance cars are permitted 100mph running. The problem here is that CN sets the speed limits. The LRCs were running 100mph fine, but CN decided to limit them, and VIA is bound to that. I don't know what the rebuilds will be allowed to do (speed-wise).

Raakone wrote: Anyways, the odd message aside, I agree that the corridor should be electrified.

Possible problem: The majority of it is a CN main freight line! Any electrification would have to accommodate double-stacks. Solution: Have really high catenary, and any electric locos and/or EMUS would use "giraffe" high-reach pantographs.

This is the major problem. VIA owns only very small portions of it's trackage in the Corridor, with the vast majority (particularly in the Montreal-Toronto segment) being owned by CN. So ultimately, the fate of the Corridor lies entirely in CN's hands. VIA can make certain petitions, but CN would have to make the upgrades. Electrification would serve no use to CN for freight purposes, and would more likely be an issue.

Ultimately, I think the only possible means by which true high speed rail (electrified or not) can be achieved in the corridor is if a separate VIA Rail line is built, dedicated exclusively to passenger use. This could be simply an extra line adjacent to the freight line, or ideally a separate corridor that is free of grade crossings, and fully electrified. Both ideas pose a huge logistic problem, which would require massive infrastructure work, and would run into a lot of property and clearance issues.

For this reason, I think a true high-speed corridor would be much easier built between Edmonton and Calgary. More open space, not as many obstacles, and a much shorter route with high potential for passenger traffic. I believe that the logistics of building a dedicated passenger-only high speed line (or rebuilding the existing tracks) would be much easier there. A true high speed line would need to be likely electrified, separated from grade crossings, built with proper super-elevation, concrete ties, and be free of freight traffic. This seems a much easier goal between Edmonton and Calgary. However, it is possible that the higher potential ridership between Montreal and Toronto would warrant such a project, but the logistics of building the line in competition with heavy CN traffic would be a nightmare.

On the east coast, I see no realistic potential for high speed rail. I'd just like to see some decent passenger service to the Maritimes to be reinstated, beyond just The Ocean. Bringing back even just RDC service between Halifax and Sydney, and some service to Fredericton, St. John, etc. would be fantastic. Likely? Probably not.

Moderator's note: The posts in this topic related to freight operations have been relocated to the Railroad Operations and Facilities forum.

Yes, I was referring to the Bombardier "Jet Train" that looked like an Amtrak HHP-8, only without the electric propulsion. It seemed that this could be Canada's "incremental approach" to high speed rail. At the time I believe VIA was looking at trying to get the LRC coaches to run at higher speeds with the Jet Train on existing ROW. Seemed like a "first step"

Not sure how serious VIA was, but they certainly tested the train, as they borrowed Amtrak Amfleet equipment (at least a cab car that I know of). But then it quietly disappeared from the news............

All for seeing RDC service in the Maritimes, even if it is seasonal to Sydney, NS for example.

And the Edmonton-Calgary route - as a test bed at least - has made the most sense for high speed rail in Canada!