White Plains station

Does anyone have photos of the original White Plains station that can be posted here?
Thanks!

"Original" - How far back are you going? The very first depot? Something from the mid 20th century?

Something from the 50's until they took down the building in the 80's, I seem to remember it being a very nicely built, well sorted suburban station.

If you have (or can get) the book The Coming of the New York and Harlem there is a photo or two of the station --- at least one from track level and one from street level.

BTW I would say it was more than your typical "suburban station" --- a good sized brick building. It was south of the present station, south of the Main St. underpass. The present station was moved north because of the necessity of having high level platforms on straight track; and south of Main St. is on a curve.

The station (before my memory) had a third track --- the northbound (railroad direction westbound) platform had a track on both sides. I am told there were three tracks from south of White Plains station to North White.

Sorry understatement is one thing I inherited from my parents. With the exception of GCT, I remember as a kid (I'm not old enough to remember Penn Station) that White Plains was a great looking station. I remember in the early 80's with the MTA's conversion to high platforms and the 3rd rail project to Brewster that some thing were going to have to go in the process, it's a shame White plains couldn't have saved the building, if not for a transportation hub, but a museum or other civic or retail function.

The original high level platforms were installed on the straightaway north of the old station at White Plains in 1971. The 1914 station was not torn down until 1983. It was the City of White Plains that advocated the replacement of the old station - going back to at least 1980 - with a new "transportation center." The idea was to have a new station at the site of the high level platforms as opposed to having the station south of Main Street and the platforms north of Main St. The project was done in coordination with the reconstruction of the overpass over Hamilton Avenue. The City of White Plains had no interest in preserving the old station. They wanted the land to be cleared for a massive hotel project and the idea was the get the building out of the way as soon as possible. In fact the old station was torn down FOUR YEARS before the current station was completed! Not long after they demolished the 1914 station the hotel plan fell through and the old station site sat vacant for about 20 years.

Tom Curtin wrote:If you have (or can get) the book The Coming of the New York and Harlem there is a photo or two of the station --- at least one from track level and one from street level.

BTW I would say it was more than your typical "suburban station" --- a good sized brick building. It was south of the present station, south of the Main St. underpass. The present station was moved north because of the necessity of having high level platforms on straight track; and south of Main St. is on a curve.

The station (before my memory) had a third track --- the northbound (railroad direction westbound) platform had a track on both sides. I am told there were three tracks from south of White Plains station to North White.

I didn't believe this until I checked old timetables and indeed track 5 existed in the 30's and 40's at least from substation no. 9 to NW. I don't think it was considered a main track as it was apparently not signaled and use was governed at least in 1948 by the signalman at NW. Another thing that I would not have believed is that apparently this track lasted until sometime between October 31, 1965 and April 24, 1966. It might have been a good place to put a freight train into the clear for passenger trains through the years, I can't imagine any other reason for keeping this track in service.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:I didn't believe this until I checked old timetables and indeed track 5 existed in the 30's and 40's at least from substation no. 9 to NW. I don't think it was considered a main track as it was apparently not signaled and use was governed at least in 1948 by the signalman at NW. Another thing that I would not have believed is that apparently this track lasted until sometime between October 31, 1965 and April 24, 1966. It might have been a good place to put a freight train into the clear for passenger trains through the years, I can't imagine any other reason for keeping this track in service.
Noel Weaver

Grogan mentions in The Coming of the New York & Harlem RR that at one time four tracks were used at the station. I've never seen a photo showing all four, but all of the old photos of the station platforms that I've seen clearly show room for four tracks. There's also a book It Happened in Old White Plains by Renoda Hoffman which contains a few good photos of the station that appear to have been taken shortly after its construction. The book also contains a 1914 Bromley atlas showing plenty of detail of the station area and the railroad north and south of the station (including the freight yard tracks north of the station). It shows four tracks at the substation and a fifth track running between the substation and the passenger station where it stub-ended.

Noel Weaver wrote: I didn't believe this until I checked old timetables and indeed track 5 existed in the 30's and 40's at least from substation no. 9 to NW. I don't think it was considered a main track as it was apparently not signaled and use was governed at least in 1948 by the signalman at NW. Another thing that I would not have believed is that apparently this track lasted until sometime between October 31, 1965 and April 24, 1966. It might have been a good place to put a freight train into the clear for passenger trains through the years, I can't imagine any other reason for keeping this track in service.
Noel Weaver

Any third track through WP station was gone by the time I first rode through there in 1964. I often rode the Harlem in the years 1963-1968. However, the third track remained, north (railroad direction west) of WP station. I remember this clearly, specifically that it was often used --- just about daily in fact --- to set out freight cars. I would surmise that the freight which came up from 30th St at night --- symbol DOJN maybe? --- made a set out there for the "traveling switcher" the following day.

PC1100 wrote: Grogan mentions in The Coming of the New York & Harlem RR that at one time four tracks were used at the station. I've never seen a photo showing all four, but all of the old photos of the station platforms that I've seen clearly show room for four tracks. There's also a book It Happened in Old White Plains by Renoda Hoffman which contains a few good photos of the station that appear to have been taken shortly after its construction. The book also contains a 1914 Bromley atlas showing plenty of detail of the station area and the railroad north and south of the station (including the freight yard tracks north of the station). It shows four tracks at the substation and a fifth track running between the substation and the passenger station where it stub-ended.

Yes Grogan says this but I was told categorically by Harlem railroaders in the 60s that WP station never had 4 tracks, only 3. So . . . somebody's wrong.

This doesn't apply to White Plains proper, but anyway: I'm sure all Harlem followers are aware that the ROW is four tracks wide all the way from NWP south to the beginning of four tracks at VO [Mt. Vernon]. I was also told by Harlem railroaders that the only places where there were more than two were
- three from NW to just south [railroad direction east] of White Plains station
- three from about a mile north [railroad direction west] of Crestwood continuing through Crestwood station
- four through Crestwood station.
Adding additional track(s) would not have been very difficult except at Scarsdale and Fleetwood stations where the westbound platform would have had to be moved over. I wonder if it was ever considered?
(Note" the above is about the NYC era and doesn't consider the third track added by Metro North from Mt Vernon the past few years)

Below is a section of a New York Central valuation map -- accurate as of January 1, 1963 -- of the White Plains (NY) station area. It shows and identifies the sidings east and west of the station and may answer some of the questions raised.

Notice the 'third' track through the station area is identified on the map as Track 101 and on the track schedule in the upper left is listed as a 16,440 foot passenger track. Also note the line is referred to as the Harlem Branch. Never heard that term used before in regards to the Harlem!

Anyway I think it's kind of interesting. Btw, this is a jpg scan of a pdf scan. The pdf scan is much larger and a lot easier to read. If anyone would like a copy just PM with me your email address and I'll send you one as an attachment.

Thanks for posting that val map --- very interesting. And all those freight sidings in downtown White Plains in Jan. 1963? That's amazing, and hard to believe. I started riding the Harlem in the fall of 64 and have no memory of those, so I guess they were not long for the world when the val map was published in Jan. 63.

Tommy Meehan wrote: Also note the line is referred to as the Harlem Branch. Never heard that term used before in regards to the Harlem!

At some point when they realigned the divisions in the 1960s, the Harlem Division was redesignated a "branch" of the Hudson Division mainline. I think what remained of the Putnam Division also became a "branch" at the same time. Most likely some sort of operational technicality in relation to operating agreements or funding priorities. Today you have "main line" "secondary" "industrial track" and "running track," all designations that refer to how the lines are operated and funded (I can't remember which is lower priority, "running track" or "industrial track," but at some point, ties become a mere fantasy). I think the New York Central only went so far as to designate "main line" and "branch" in timetables.


-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:Most likely some sort of operational technicality in relation to operating agreements or funding priorities.

Side note: the leasing agreements between American Premier Underwriters and the MTA still make reference to a "New York and Harlem Railroad". Perhaps it was always considered an operating subsidiary rather than having been completely absorbed into the NYC?

The New York & Harlem was leased by the NYC&HR in 1872 for a period of about 400 years. It was never separately operated but it was never 'owned' in a strict legal sense.