• Atlantic Coast Line "Havana Special" Consist

  • Forum dedicated to the Seaboard System Railroad and its predecessors, aka The Family Lines System, prior to its operational merger with the Chessie System, forming CSX, in 1982. Predecessors included the Atlantic Coast Line, the West Point Route, the Clinchfield, the Louisville and Nashville, the Seaboard Air Line, and the Seaboard Coast Line.
Forum dedicated to the Seaboard System Railroad and its predecessors, aka The Family Lines System, prior to its operational merger with the Chessie System, forming CSX, in 1982. Predecessors included the Atlantic Coast Line, the West Point Route, the Clinchfield, the Louisville and Nashville, the Seaboard Air Line, and the Seaboard Coast Line.
  by 3rdrail
 
Can anyone describe a typical consist for the "Havana Special" sleeper in 1956 that would have departed at 9:30PM from Washington, D.C., arriving in Fayetteville, NC at 9:20 AM ?
Steam/Diesel ? Heavyweight cars/stainless streamlined ? Pullmans ?
Thanks. :-D
  by Ocala Mike
 
By 1956, No. 75 would have been pulled by an RF&P diesel between Washington and Richmond, then by a purple and white ACL diesel the rest of the way.

From my 1956 Official Guide, the consist is described (besides coaches) as follows:

Tavern Lounge, Richmond to Jacksonville
Dining Car, Richmond to Jacksonville
10/2/1 Sleeper, Washington to Orlando
8/5 Sleeper, New York to Miami
10/6 Sleeper, New York to Tampa (last trip 12/7)
6/6 Sleeper, New York to Tampa (first trip 12/8)
21 Roomette Sleeper, New York to Florence
14/2 Sleeper, New York to Wilmington (last trip 12/7)
6/6 Sleeper, New York to Wilmington (first trip 12/8)
10/1/1 Sleeper, Jacksonville to Fort Myers

I'm pretty sure these would all have been stainless steel ACL-marked cars, but I leave it to GBN or someone else to fill in the details.
  by Ocala Mike
 
Additionally, your times are incorrect. This train left NYP at 8:45 pm and Washington at 1:50 am (you could board the sleepers there at 10:00 pm), and arrived Fayetteville at 9:19 am.
  by 3rdrail
 
Ok. Thanks Mike. I appreciate your detailed info. Most of my info is pure speculation - (see original thread here:) http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 50&t=61658
If you guys think of anything else, please let me know.
Thanks again.
  by younger
 
Quoting Ocala Mike: "Tavern Lounge, Richmond to Jacksonville
Dining Car, Richmond to Jacksonville
10/2/1 Sleeper, Washington to Orlando
8/5 Sleeper, New York to Miami
10/6 Sleeper, New York to Tampa (last trip 12/7)
6/6 Sleeper, New York to Tampa (first trip 12/8)
21 Roomette Sleeper, New York to Florence
14/2 Sleeper, New York to Wilmington (last trip 12/7)
6/6 Sleeper, New York to Wilmington (first trip 12/8)
10/1/1 Sleeper, Jacksonville to Fort Myers

I'm pretty sure these would all have been stainless steel ACL-marked cars, but I leave it to GBN or someone else to fill in the details.

I think that you will find that only the 10 roomette-6 double bedroom, 21 roomette, and 14 Roomette-2 drawing room (an ACL oddity) sleepers were lightweight. All the others were (more or less) standard heavy weights.
  by 3rdrail
 
Thanks Mr. Younger !
  by Noel Weaver
 
There are at least three Atlantic Coast Line timetables involved here for the year 1956. One effective October 30, 1955
which covers the winter months of 1956. One for April 29, 1956 and one for October 28, 1956. I don't know just which one
you are interested in so I will more or less cover the three of them:
October 30, 1955 - Train no. 75, the Havana Special left Washington at 3:05 AM. The through cars came down from New
York on PRR 141 and this arrangement lasted all the way in to the Penn Central period.
Reclining Seat Coaches between all points
Tavern Lounge - Richmond - Jacksonville
Diner - Washington - Jacksonville
Sleepers - Washington - Orlando (8 Sections, 2 Compartments, 1 Drawing Room)
New York - Miami (8 Sections, 5 Double Bedrooms)
New York - Tampa (10 Roomettes, 6 Double Bedrooms)
New York - Wilmington (14 Roomettes, 2 Drawing Rooms)
Jacksonville - Fort Myers (10 Sections, 1 Compartment, 1 Drawing Room)
This being the winter season, I suspect the cars with sections might well have been heavyweight sleepers as they were in
common use on some of the Florida trains of the period.
April 29, 1956: Departed Washington at 1:50 AM
Orlando sleeper had 10 Sections instead of 8
Sleeper - New York - Florence (21 Roomettes)
Cafe-Lounge - Rocky Mount to Wilmington
otherwise the same as the winter schedule
October 28, 1956:
Departed Washington 1:50 AM
Diner - Richmond - Jacksonville
New York - Wilmington (14 Roomettes, 2 Drawing Rooms)
Otherwise as shown for the previous October.

We need to remember that this set of trains took two nights to make the trip between New York and Miami, Tampa and
other Florida points south of Jacksonville. The train got a big switch at Jacksonville and all of the sections laid over for at
least 4 hours at Jacksonville. It provided much service to stations in Southern Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia with
daytime arrivals and departures. It also carried a lot of mail and express.
Another big purpose of this train was pass riders. Passes were restricted on all of the better trains to and from Florida on
both the ACL and SAL and this train provided a decent alternative for pass riders to and from Florida points.
Prior to the Labor Day Hurricane in 1935, this train was also the through train to Key West with through cars from New York
and other points including Parlor, Lounge, Observation and Dining cars all the way.
In later years after the strike on the Florida East Coast the Atlantic Coast Line had to detour their Miami passenger service
over the Seaboard and this train no longer provided service to Miami. Around that time it was renamed the "Gulf Coast
Special" and at Richmond it was combined with the Seaboard train the Palmland for the trip between Richmond and New York.
Noel Weaver
  by 3rdrail
 
Thanks Noel. I appreciate the work that went into that. There's a lot of info there that I am going to digest to see if anything registers a spark. It was a long time ago and far away as they say.
  by Ocala Mike
 
Thanks, Mr. Younger, for "bumping" this thread, and thanks to 3rdrail and Noel for a brief trip in the "wayback" machine.
Just completed a "road trip" from Ocala, FL to Nichols, IA and return. Came back the long way via I-74 (Indianapolis), I-65 (Louisville), I-64 (Lexington), and I-75 the rest of the way and got a real appreciation for why the midwest to Florida is not a good candidate to become a rail "corridor."

The trip out, listening to the BP Motor Club, was around 1175 miles, while the trip back, listening to my brother-in-law, was around 1325 miles. Well, that's what brothers-in-law are for, right?
  by Noel Weaver
 
Ocala Mike wrote:Thanks, Mr. Younger, for "bumping" this thread, and thanks to 3rdrail and Noel for a brief trip in the "wayback" machine.
Just completed a "road trip" from Ocala, FL to Nichols, IA and return. Came back the long way via I-74 (Indianapolis), I-65 (Louisville), I-64 (Lexington), and I-75 the rest of the way and got a real appreciation for why the midwest to Florida is not a good candidate to become a rail "corridor."

The trip out, listening to the BP Motor Club, was around 1175 miles, while the trip back, listening to my brother-in-law, was around 1325 miles. Well, that's what brothers-in-law are for, right?
Don't know about brother's in law but my trip to Albany last month was close to 1500 miles. The only things that I was
listening to were NPR, classical music either on the radio, tapes or CD's and the purring of my cat, Mickey, who enjoys
riding in the car unlike many cats.
Noel Weaver