Amtrak Great Dome Schedule Sightings Status

jhdeasy wrote:How about Beech Grove or Bear converting them to a modern variation of the Seaboard Air Line Silver Meteor "Sun Lounge" cars of 1956, referred to by some people as the "dome cars for Pennsylvania Station", minus the bedrooms and food/beverage service capability? They could be operated as a non-revenue lounge car, or a premium fare business class car.

electricron wrote:If lowly Colorado Railcar can build a brand new full length ultra-dome cars for Alaska RR and VIA, so can just about anyone else. Amtrak should buy new cars to fit this role.

In a perfect world, Congress would allow funding for 15 of the CAF Viewliner-IIs (or whatever they'll be) to be Sightseer lounges. That'd be enough for the Adirondack, the Cardinal, and the Lake Shore - perhaps the Pennsylvanian or one of the Southern trains as well. Since this isn't a perfect world, and since Amtrak's shop personnel are acknowledged to be quite skilled, it would be quite possible for Amtrak to do a conversion on one of their surplus cars.

I should have thought twice before suggesting ex-Metroliners though. Their monocoque construction wouldn't allow for a dome (or several overhead windows) to be added as easily as would a body-on-frame car like a Heritage, Viewliner or Horizon.

In a perfect world, Yes, you are correct, it would be nice to add 15 ( ahh heck make it 25) cars with wraparound glass for eastern trains, but this iis not a perfect world, and there are moe pressing needs. Aas someone that has worked with sme of the heratage equipment in the past.. thees poor cars have given their all and then some.. I am not one to advocate scrapping them, but they need help. the Baggage cars and diners are beat to heck.. the Baggage Dorm concept is great as it frees up revenue space in the sleepers ( so in escence you are getting MORE then the 25 sleepers out of the deal). And done try to arque why baggage cars with me.. you have obviously never worked the Builder where there is a pile of Midway bags 40 feet long and 6 feet high and 3 feet wide, or where you put on 5 floats of Skis at Grand Forks in the middle of the night, or 3 floatts of bags at Milwaukee in the middle of the week. Yes some trains DO use a full Baggage car. let's fill THOSE gaps first, then down the road, add the wraparounds...

Western routes have scenery, at least for part/s of their route. Only Eastern routes with any scenery, other than flat land, scrub pine, and warehouses, factories, during daylight hours, IMHO, would be the Adirondack, Maple Leaf, Cardinal (eastbound), Pennsylvanian. Perhaps the Ethan Allen and Vermonter, during the summer when DST is in effect. Everything else you'd be looking at smokestacks, refineries or kudzu. And so they wouldn't be 'non-revenue', a new 'class' ....either replace business class with this...or a new one called "glass class" <chuckle>

CarterB wrote:Western routes have scenery, at least for part/s of their route. Only Eastern routes with any scenery, other than flat land, scrub pine, and warehouses, factories, during daylight hours, IMHO, would be the Adirondack, Maple Leaf, Cardinal (eastbound), Pennsylvanian. Perhaps the Ethan Allen and Vermonter, during the summer when DST is in effect. Everything else you'd be looking at smokestacks, refineries or kudzu.

Some of us easterners actually find green rolling hills rather attractive.

I understand your point -- no Rockies here -- but don't forget upstate New York and the Hudson Valley as seen from the eastbound Lake Shore, or just about any place that has a hardwood forest in autumn.

The prior Amtrak service full domes and the ex-Alaska big domes have that wonderful combination of age and high mileage that all fleet managers love.

I consider 10031, the Pacific Parlour and Sightseer Lounges as "amenity added" cars for Amtrak. They are not to core to the business but are useful in marketing certain lanes, promotional kickoffs and the like. Going forward, nobody in their right mind would add replacements to a new car order. Adding a small, customized batch of cars would come at a price point beyond their economic value. Unless the Alaska cruise market goes into the tank and those cars come onto the market, any additions to the Amtrak glass fleet would have to be in-house, existing equipment modifications.

Speaking of CRC, does anyone know how those cars are performing in the real world and what happened to the shells/mock ups they had at Ft. Lupton?

An aside for Misters Smith, Dunville and Vondrak, as well as whoever else may be interested: we discussed this once before.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 46&t=39003 - "Dream a Big Dream: Viewliner Domes"

A Viewliner Sightseer would provide no extra revenue directly, assuming it would step into the same role that an Amfleet Dinette currently holds as a lounge car. That's not to say it wouldn't improve revenue indirectly. A seat under a glassed-in sky is a much more attractive option than a 4" x 6" Airbus window, no matter what the scenery is outside - if advertised, it may make for a few more passengers per train, and a few more people who'd rather sit in the lounge (and buy food-service items) than in their own seats. The cars probably wouldn't pay for themselves, but they might improve Amtrak's reputation among travelers fed-up with "cattle car" accommodations in the friendly skies.

Besides, Amtrak undeniably will need replacements for the Amfleet Dinettes and Club-Dinettes, and the Horizon Club-Dinettes, eventually.

TomNelligan wrote: I understand your point -- no Rockies here -- but don't forget upstate New York and the Hudson Valley as seen from the eastbound Lake Shore, or just about any place that has a hardwood forest in autumn.

That is....if the Late Shore Ltd. is ever on time!!!

Or perhaps Amtrak could lease the dome from the Friends of the 261 or whatever they're called now. I know they've leased a baggage combine for the Piedmont.

I'm guessing that the dome would be on the rear of the Cardinal, Plus there's the Hoosier State equipment that is moved on the rear of the train. I can imagine the train would look something like this out of Chicago:

P42(s)-baggage-Sleeper-diner/lounge/coach (Cardinal)/coach (Cardinal)/coach (Cardinal)/dome/coach (Hoosier State)/coach (Hoosier State).

The Hoosier State coaches are removed at Indinapolis and the dome at Washington.

I'm thinking of taking a trip on the Cardinal for the dome.

A shallow dome like the Deutsche Bahn Trans Europe Express cars could be done, given money and inclination-
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soubor:TEE ... _04_23.JPG

jhdeasy wrote:They could be operated as a non-revenue lounge car, or a premium fare business class car.

No seat in a lounge car should be considered a "non-revenue" seat. Most long distance lines have a number of people that ride only the first 100 miles or the last 100 miles. And most trains only fill up on Fridays and Sundays. So, typically, a lounge car could carry fare-paying passengers for the last 100 miles on Fridays and the first 100 miles on Sundays. Then, they would have available seats for use as a lounge for the rest of the trip. Of course, some routes would see more revenue use, some less.

The same should be true of diners and cafes. If the cafe service is closed from Providence to Boston, put a fare-paying passenger in that seat.

As my forum name suggests, there's nothing I'd rather see more, and little I'd expect to see less.

We probably could put some kind of domes back on many Amtrak routes for the price of a few HSR feasibility studies. That would create an immediate benefit, but instead, we'll go on buying paper and promises. My strategy for Amtrak's betterment would concentrate on amenities over speed, because that's what railroads can do and have done well in the past. It doesn't require thousands of miles of new rails, either, just the replacement of aged rolling stock with historically proven designs. I don't care so much about cutting the Denver-Chicago time in half; it will still be a far slower trip than on a plane. But it could easily be a much more pleasant trip, if we chased these easily attainable goals: better food, bigger windows and cheaper sleepers.

There I go, thinking like a Canadian again. Guess I better find a way to ride up there...

domefoamer wrote: We probably could put some kind of domes back on many Amtrak routes for the price of a few HSR feasibility studies. That would create an immediate benefit, but instead, we'll go on buying paper and promises. My strategy for Amtrak's betterment would concentrate on amenities over speed, because that's what railroads can do and have done well in the past. It doesn't require thousands of miles of new rails, either, just the replacement of aged rolling stock with historically proven designs. I don't care so much about cutting the Denver-Chicago time in half; it will still be a far slower trip than on a plane. But it could easily be a much more pleasant trip, if we chased these easily attainable goals: better food, bigger windows and cheaper sleepers.

I agree with you. If ARR can afford to buy new modern domes, so can Amtrak.

Amtrak would be far better off to lease cars in off season from Alaska Railroad, for fall tours etc.
no way that with just a few Domes (if they owned them) they would not make any kind of profit.
Even if Amtrak just on an as needed basis would lease a few of the ex-westtours domes, you could charge a surcharge for dome use, but most likely each train it be used on would need one or two for each consist.
but were regressing, no way will Congress allow Amtrak to get cars, that are nothing more than a luxury and not a revenue maker.

the cars in Alaska are probably easy for a lease as Cruise season is only from May till Mid September.