R3 Back To West Chester

Trails to Rails wrote:Maybe the answer is to allow and/or encourage SEPTA to haul short distance freight and run mail to 30th Street, a scenario as likely as service to West Chester I'm afraid.

USPS no longer processes mail at 30th Street. Maybe the Route 36 trolley can pull trailers of mail to Eastwick.

Freight handling is not compatible with short station dwell times for commuter trains.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Trails to Rails wrote:Maybe the answer is to allow and/or encourage SEPTA to haul short distance freight and run mail to 30th Street, a scenario as likely as service to West Chester I'm afraid.

USPS no longer processes mail at 30th Street. Maybe the Route 36 trolley can pull trailers of mail to Eastwick.

Freight handling is not compatible with short station dwell times for commuter trains.

Since fantasy seems to be the theme of most of the threads here, why couldn't SEPTA run freight only trains like their predecessors did?

Trails to Rails wrote:Since fantasy seems to be the theme of most of the threads here, why couldn't SEPTA run freight only trains like their predecessors did?

Are you assuming they would have to be profitable? If so, start counting the cost of installing and maintaining sidings and other delivery facilities, as well as the costs of the trains.

There's a reason why the typical model for freight service over passenger lines (see LIRR/NY&A for example) involves a private freight operator and the typical model for small freight lines is a local government or development agency providing the capital investment.

A carbon tax is long past due. It will reduce Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) and GHG emissions and, although most of the tax should be refunded to the taxpayers, a portion can be used to fund expansion of commuter rail service.

Thomas K. McHugh wrote:A carbon tax is long past due. It will reduce Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) and GHG emissions and, although most of the tax should be refunded to the taxpayers, a portion can be used to fund expansion of commuter rail service.

Yeah, that would fly...
Note how often PA has upped it's gas tax in the past 15 years. There's no political will because it would be suicide for a politician to suggest.
What do you have against hybrid cars so much anyway? (and don't tell me gas is going to go to $8 a gallon in our lifetimes and all of society's demographics will suddenly change because of it)

West Chester's on the backburner for its own county planners, when it becomes unstuck SEPTA will just inflate the price to an astonomical level yet again..

Thomas K. McHugh wrote:A carbon tax is long past due. It will reduce Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) and GHG emissions and, although most of the tax should be refunded to the taxpayers, a portion can be used to fund expansion of commuter rail service.

You can kiss 95% of your jobs goodbye if they were ever to pass a carbon tax.

Tritransit Area wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

CSXT 4617 wrote:I hope someone, someday convinces SEPTA to resume service to West Chester.

That someone is gonna have to be the Chester County commissioners, who presently are putting restoration of service to Parkesburg (see DVRPC study) ahead of restoration to West Chester.

Interesting...why is that? Is it because it would be "cheaper" to restore and they would get the most bang for the buck? Does Amtrak have multi-ride tickets? I'd imagine that more service via Amtrak to these stations would be more desirable. A local ride on the R5 Thorndale (Parkesburg!) line would be incredibly tedious.

Mr. Mitchell identified the source of the problem. I'd magine it IS cheaper and, perhaps, supports their sprawl agenda better I don't know. Amtrak does have multirides and yes, speed would certainly be a factor. SEPTA's most recent study on the subject said the area wa adequately served by Amtrak. being politicians, this was likely not enough for them to move on to more pressing subjects. I also think more Amtrak service is probably the best bet for these areas, not duplicate SEPTA service. Service to West Chester and Phoenixville should be a higher priority, IMO. Chester county might be more interested in restoration of the WC branch off the PRR mainline but it's barely recongizable anymore. I found the "green line" proposal that links Phoenixville to Paoli interesting, and it suggested that a light rail link to West Chester from Paoli via Great Valley might also be feasible. that project seems to have gotten little interest from chester county officials who seem to have forgotten about the heavily populated eastern side of the county. that said, I doubt SEPTA doesn't want to run to WC. If Chester county said, we'll pay you to run trains to West Chester, they'd likely run them. It would improve the line by giving it another destiation IMO. Perhaps it coudl eventually run as a loop through west chester to paoli.

If West Chester were really interested in being connected quickly and at least cost with the city, they would consider a shuttle bus connecting with every SEPTA train scheduled at Exton station, and with a joint fare as kicker.

Two good reads regarding why we need the R3 put back to West Chester as well as other expansion projects, and why many experts have come to the conclusion that we need a carbon tax to pay for the expansion of commuter rail:

http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/Public ... ge2010.pdf

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/pub ... ate_change

Suburban Station wrote:I'd magine it IS cheaper and, perhaps, supports [the county commissioners'] sprawl agenda better I don't know.

I trust that was shorthand for 'anti-sprawl' agenda. From what I've seen, and the backgrounds of some of the commissioners, they're not pro-sprawl.

SEPTA is committed to running to West Chester----- over West Chester Pike as the Route 104 bus. Much as I would love to see the R3 restored to West Chester, as I rode that train frequently in the old PRR days, unless there is a massive increase in the population of the area along the ROW between Media and West Chester, I doubt that we will ever see a restoration to West Chester of the old "Media-West Chester" line.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:I'd magine it IS cheaper and, perhaps, supports [the county commissioners'] sprawl agenda better I don't know.

I trust that was shorthand for 'anti-sprawl' agenda. From what I've seen, and the backgrounds of some of the commissioners, they're not pro-sprawl.

no, not what I meant at all. there are a lot of things to like about chesco, but anti-sprawl they are not. perhaps ground zero for sprawl in PA, and the service they are pushing is merely meant to serve that...whatever their own personal justifications are, I don't know, but that's the end result. meanwhile, older, revitalized towns are left behind.
we don't need a carbon tax to get to WC. that's a bit extremist. anyone hear of a proposal where increased environmental taxes are offset by lower income taxes? no? that's right, they just want more of your money and use environmentalist pawns to push for more revenue.

If service was restored, would WC be a zone 4 or zone 5 trip? I'm thinking Wawa would be zone 3?

skm wrote:If service was restored, would WC be a zone 4 or zone 5 trip? I'm thinking Wawa would be zone 3?

Zone 5. It's actually in the tariffs, along with Newtown (shudder) and Pottstown(!), but not Quakertown/Bethlehem or (interestingly) the stations beyond Cynwyd.

The zones are based on concentric circles: air miles from City Hall, so you can look at a map to determine zones. From the tariffs, the zone 3/4 boundary appears to be between Elwyn and Glen Riddle, and the 4/5 between Cheyney and West Chester University. On the Newtown branch, the boundaries are Bryn Athyn/County Line and Holland/George School.

Matt, for consistency where is the Newtown 2/3 break? if you have it available ... (After Fox Chase?)