Silverliner kitbash from Walther's Horizon coach

ac0catenary wrote:The IHP silverliner III cars cost $200 a car and its not motorized .. No thats expensive !!
An update
I recently placed Oval inserts over the square windows of the horizon/silverliner IV car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ac_catenary/4308365173/

The IHP Silverliner III's are $200, while the Silverliner IV's are $100??? Why the difference in price??? Indeed, they are quite expensive, especially given the fact that they come unassembled/unfinished. Even if they were pre-assembled, they would still be expensive for an HO scale railcar. With the IHP Silverliner III's being that expensive, it would probably be a lot cheaper to kitbash a Horizon coach! Once I get the money and can afford it, I would love to get my hands on at least one of each.

SubwayTim wrote:

ac0catenary wrote:The IHP silverliner III cars cost $200 a car and its not motorized .. No thats expensive !!
An update
I recently placed Oval inserts over the square windows of the horizon/silverliner IV car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ac_catenary/4308365173/

The IHP Silverliner III's are $200, while the Silverliner IV's are $100??? Why the difference in price??? Indeed, they are quite expensive, especially given the fact that they come unassembled/unfinished. Even if they were pre-assembled, they would still be expensive for an HO scale railcar. With the IHP Silverliner III's being that expensive, it would probably be a lot cheaper to kitbash a Horizon coach! Once I get the money and can afford it, I would love to get my hands on at least one of each.

The SLIIIs are actually $165 and are licensed by SEPTA which would explain the extra $65 in pricing.

And bear in mind that IHP is about the only company that consistently models SEPTA equipment and they do a great job at it. If you ask me they have a much better deal than say SPTC whose models on average price out at well over $300.

Are the IHP models readily available at 1234 Market St., or would they have to be ordered? Also, are they easy to assemble?

I'd like to see SL-IIs in O gauge three rail. Reading Blueliners are available but they have the wrong roof style and trucks.

ex Budd man wrote:I'd like to see SL-IIs in O gauge three rail. Reading Blueliners are available but they have the wrong roof style and trucks.

I would like to see ALL Silverliners released in both HO and O gauge! I imagine if they were made in O gauge, it would take an entire paycheck to buy just ONE car! I do own one O gauge (SEPTA) Horizon coach, along with AEM-7 locomotive that is (or was) available at 1234 Market St.. I also have the HO gauge AEM-7 along with several Horizon coaches in SEPTA, NJT and Metro-North liveries.

FYI..... This thread is drifting towards being moved into the Model Railroading thread.

SubwayTim wrote:

ac0catenary wrote:The IHP silverliner III cars cost $200 a car and its not motorized .. No thats expensive !!
An update
I recently placed Oval inserts over the square windows of the horizon/silverliner IV car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ac_catenary/4308365173/

The IHP Silverliner III's are $200, while the Silverliner IV's are $100??? Why the difference in price???

the Silverliner IIIs are older models from when IHP was using older construction techniques. Lately, IHP has found a cheaper way to produce the models, (not to mention parts commonality between Arrows and Silverliner IVs allowing the models to be made cheaper). I also heard somewhere that SEPTA has reached a deal with IHP and so the licensing fee is reduced.

Indeed, they are quite expensive, especially given the fact that they come unassembled/unfinished. Even if they were pre-assembled, they would still be expensive for an HO scale railcar. With the IHP Silverliner III's being that expensive, it would probably be a lot cheaper to kitbash a Horizon coach! Once I get the money and can afford it, I would love to get my hands on at least one of each.

Part of SEPTA's deal is that IHP makes accurate ready to run and painted Silverliner models (both Silverliner IVs and Vs, which i have seen personally) for around $100 to be sold at the SEPTA store. While i've seen preproduction models, it probably won't be until later this year that we see them, but they are getting IHP's priority i think.

SubwayTim wrote:Are the IHP models readily available at 1234 Market St., or would they have to be ordered? Also, are they easy to assemble?

I wouldn't say they are hard to assemble, but they come in MANY parts. I have a couple of their Arrow III kits. It may be better to wait for the above mentioned SIlverliner Models. the kits have more details, but from what i've seen, the "RTRs" meant for the SEPTA store look great already.
You'll have to order them for now, but i assume they will have more at the SEPTA store soon.

ex Budd man wrote:I'd like to see SL-IIs in O gauge three rail. Reading Blueliners are available but they have the wrong roof style and trucks.

IHP has recently announcedn an O scale Silverliner II.

theWatusi wrote:

ekt8750 wrote:

theWatusi wrote:^^^ It's too bad they are so expensive

$100 is expensive to you?

For a single car HO non-powered kit. Yes, that's expensive to me.

Expensive to me also. In this economy? You bet ya.

Some notes on IHP's Silverliner models and SEPTA projects:

IHP is reworking the HO Silverliner IV to simplify the kit for easier production by us and assembly by you. This will reduce the cost of the kit. We will be producing two versions: a simplified kit with body, floor, plastic trucks and black windows, and the more complete premier kit with metal trucks,interior, detail parts and clear tinted windows. The simple kit will get you running quickly and allow you to build a fleet at a nominal cost. The premier kit will be available for those who want a little more in their models and can afford it.

We're also developing a power truck to be used in a future RTR version. This truck will be eventually used in all our MU car models, but the Silverliners will get it first.

We have floated the idea of an O scale Silverliner II body kit and have reached an agreement with the O scale Cherry Valley Model RR Club in NJ to help get it off the ground, as their members are interested in them. The production run will be limited to 20 kits. The plan now is to produce the run this summer, but this will depend on several factors. If you are interested in this kit, please contact IHP, or Drew McCann at the CVMRR.

As for other SEPTA models, over the past year we have been producing a range of souvenir toys based on models in our current product range. These souvenir toys are being sold exclusively through the SEPTA Transit Gift Shop. They are painted HO-scale models with the same detail as our standard models but are assembled and painted, with plastic rolling wheels and the trolleys have Bachmann dummy plastic poles. The price is right too (between $20 and $30), so for those of you that complain IHP's prices are too high, these might be useful to you. So far, we have been producing several types of PCC trolleys in many different paint schemes, and we just introduced a Kawasaki LRV model toy that has been doing well. The next model to be introduced later this month is an Almond Joy car, and after that, a Broad Street Kawasaki BIV car. Some all-new models are in the works, too. We're trying to keep the Store stocked as best we can based on their requirements, so keep checking the Store for new models and paint schemes.

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com

Mike@IHP wrote:Some notes on IHP's Silverliner models and SEPTA projects:
IHP is reworking the HO Silverliner IV to simplify the kit for easier production by us and assembly by you. This will reduce the cost of the kit. We will be producing two versions: a simplified kit with body, floor, plastic trucks and black windows, and the more complete premier kit with metal trucks,interior, detail parts and clear tinted windows. The simple kit will get you running quickly and allow you to build a fleet at a nominal cost. The premier kit will be available for those who want a little more in their models and can afford it.

What's the timeframe (if any) on the release?

Mike@IHP wrote:Some notes on IHP's Silverliner models and SEPTA projects:

IHP is reworking the HO Silverliner IV to simplify the kit for easier production by us and assembly by you. This will reduce the cost of the kit. We will be producing two versions: a simplified kit with body, floor, plastic trucks and black windows, and the more complete premier kit with metal trucks,interior, detail parts and clear tinted windows. The simple kit will get you running quickly and allow you to build a fleet at a nominal cost. The premier kit will be available for those who want a little more in their models and can afford it.

When you say black windows, does that mean the "windows" will be just painted on the car body, or will they be still cut out, but filled in with non-transparent black plastic rather than tinted see-through plastic? I've never seen an HO scale passenger rail car with painted-on windows, which I feel would look very unrealistic. Do you have any photos of what the simplified kit will look like???

SubwayTim wrote:

Mike@IHP wrote:Some notes on IHP's Silverliner models and SEPTA projects:

IHP is reworking the HO Silverliner IV to simplify the kit for easier production by us and assembly by you. This will reduce the cost of the kit. We will be producing two versions: a simplified kit with body, floor, plastic trucks and black windows, and the more complete premier kit with metal trucks,interior, detail parts and clear tinted windows. The simple kit will get you running quickly and allow you to build a fleet at a nominal cost. The premier kit will be available for those who want a little more in their models and can afford it.

When you say black windows, does that mean the "windows" will be just painted on the car body, or will they be still cut out, but filled in with non-transparent black plastic rather than tinted see-through plastic? I've never seen an HO scale passenger rail car with painted-on windows, which I feel would look very unrealistic. Do you have any photos of what the simplified kit will look like???

they are flat black inserts. I to questioned this, since i'm sure the extra cost for see through windows would have been tolerated, but that will be something we have to change. If they are anything like i saw, it won't be a big deal if you really want MUs.

green_elite_cab wrote:

SubwayTim wrote:

Mike@IHP wrote:Some notes on IHP's Silverliner models and SEPTA projects:

IHP is reworking the HO Silverliner IV to simplify the kit for easier production by us and assembly by you. This will reduce the cost of the kit. We will be producing two versions: a simplified kit with body, floor, plastic trucks and black windows, and the more complete premier kit with metal trucks,interior, detail parts and clear tinted windows. The simple kit will get you running quickly and allow you to build a fleet at a nominal cost. The premier kit will be available for those who want a little more in their models and can afford it.

When you say black windows, does that mean the "windows" will be just painted on the car body, or will they be still cut out, but filled in with non-transparent black plastic rather than tinted see-through plastic? I've never seen an HO scale passenger rail car with painted-on windows, which I feel would look very unrealistic. Do you have any photos of what the simplified kit will look like???

they are flat black inserts. I to questioned this, since i'm sure the extra cost for see through windows would have been tolerated, but that will be something we have to change. If they are anything like i saw, it won't be a big deal if you really want MUs.

Yeah, I decided that all windows on the 'toys' and on the 'simplified' kits will be black plastic inserts (NOT painted on!). They'll be the same inserts (mostly) as in the 'premier' kits (which will still be tinted-clear or water-clear), but the Clear resin cures much slower and is trickier to work with, which obviously defeats the purpose of making an inexpensive model in larger numbers. If you've seen the Kawasaki souvenir toy, they look pretty good with them. I will have an Almond Joy toy sample to show the SEPTA people next week and it will also have the black inserts. If they like it, they will be in the Store later this month. For the 'simplified' Silverliner kits, unless you have to have a lighted interior, I figure their small size and the fact the prototypes are tinted, most people won't notice the difference when the cars are running.

Oh, and on the price issue, I have to say that from my perspective, I don't think $100 for a single HO MU kit is expensive. If you look at the Silverliner IV/Arrow III kit IHP currently offers, it's too CHEAP. When you factor in all the R&D (nearly 25 years' worth), the time casting the LARGE NUMBER of castings per kit, the time and money spent tooling the kit, subcontracting for the metal trucks and decals, purchasing the wheelsets, rod stock and everything else included in the kit....it's too cheap. I should be getting more for my investment in them. In fact, some of you may have noticed IHP's efforts over the last few years to bring down prices on many items, now that we don't have to subcontract the major casting work. IHP's Silverliner III models are now sold out, but the castings for them were the last remaining ones from a production run we did in 2005, and they were done before we started doing all the plastic casting in-house. Now THAT's expensive, when you have to pay someone else to make your stuff and then mark it way up just to make something from it. Plus the SEPTA decal licensing, the metal trucks, the metal pantograph, that all added up to an expensive kit, and that was without add-on detail parts or window inserts! And then the assembled RTR versions went a step further- they had machined aluminum frames which cost as much apiece as all the resin castings per kit. Remember too, that we're talking about limited quantities, not thousands made by cheap labour overseas. You simply cannot compare the Made In China plastic models to limited-run niche models when it comes to price, it's just apples and oranges. Now, if we were to re-run the SIlverliner IIIs today, we could probably do them at a much better price because we can save a lot by doing them in-house. I will say this with confidence: You will still get from IHP the best HO Silverliners and Arrows on the market, now or ever, I will guarantee you that for your money.

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com