D&H buying the O&W to get access to New York City

When the O&W was in bankruptcy, or after it closed, did the D&H ever consider buying it to get access to New York City/New Jersey?

They could have abandoned the trackage north of Sidney and the Scranton division, and used the Main to run all the way to Cornwall.

Just another what if.

Brian

The D&H had no plans to acquire the NYO&W that I know of. They would have had to buy out New Haven's stock interest in the line first, and I fail to see how access to NYO&W's treacherous mountain routes would have benefitted the D&H.

What about the O & W trackage rights on the west shore of the Hudson? If a RR is bought are the trackage rights included in the sale?
That could have brought the D & H closer to the NY metro market.

I fail to see how access to NYO&W's treacherous mountain routes would have benefitted the D&H.

I would prefer to say scenic instead of treacherous!

BobLI wrote:What about the O & W trackage rights on the west shore of the Hudson? If a RR is bought are the trackage rights included in the sale?
That could have brought the D & H closer to the NY metro market.

Well having been involved in the take over of a number of organizations (including some in receivership) it would depend on both the contracts and the court.

The other issue would be is "closer" better without access to the NYC markets. If the Old Weary had actually had direct access to NYC it might not have been in the bad shape it was.

ricebrianrice wrote:I would prefer to say scenic instead of treacherous!

Yeah, that's part of the attraction of the NYO&W -- it's the railroad that never should have existed, and yet it does, so everybody who knows about it loves the romance of it.

"Everybody thought I was daft to build a railroad through the mountains, but I built it anyway, and it slid down the hill."

I mean, from a railfan's perspective, what's not to like? You've got your hills, your small towns, your branch lines, your tunnels.

Regardless of whether or not we like the NYOW, the D&H had no plans to buy it. What's more, with O&W's mounting debt, it was very likely that D&H's board of directors would not approve such a purchase. If D&H wanted access to Weehawken, they might have attempted to negotiate trackage rights over the NYC from Albany... more direct than going over the mountains and taking on the money-losing NYOW! But apparently access to New York City was not a priority for the D&H.

The D&H pondered merger with the Erie and DL&W, but backed out of that deal when a satisfactory deal could not be reached. Thus I think the D&H was interested in access to greater New York metro area... but only if the terms were to its liking.

I do find it interesting that access was later granted via trackage rights on the former Erie during the Conrail era.

ACTUALLY THE O & W BOUGHT PART OF THE D& H. THE UTICA TO SIDNEY LINE WAS OWNED BY THE D & H AND LEASED BY THE O & W UNTIL THE LATE 30'S OR EARLY 40'S WHEN THE O & W BOUGHT IT OUTRIGHT. THE DETAILS OF THE LEASE AND PURCHASE ARE DETAILED IN JOHN TAIBI'S BOOK "REMEMBERING THE NEW YORK, ONTARIO & WESTERN RAILWAY: OSWEGO TO SIDNEY AND BRANCHES by John Taibi "

As the O&W mainline wound its way through out of the way places towards Lake Ontario, it spun off a branch from near Hamilton to Utica. As this branch went through Clinton, another branch went to Rome. The Utica, Clinton & Binghamton Railroad was owned by the Delaware & Hudson, leased to the O&W, and finally sold to the O&W in 1942 for $250,000. The Rome & Clinton Railroad was sold by the D&H to the O&W in 1944. The D&H owned these disconnected lines as a result of an 1873 loan to the NY & Oswego Midland that was defaulted. The D&H had made the loan in hopes that it would bolster coal traffic over the D&H.

With the Liquidation of the O&W, they could have purchased the assets of the O&W without the debt. Scranton-Cornwall/Weehauken and several other branches would have probably been what the D&H would have taken. That and locomotives. An FT in Lightning stripes would have been pretty sweet!

The O&W went bankrupt for a reason it was a lousy idea.

Acquisition of the O&W wouldn't have given the D&H anything of value. It didn't reach different markets that couldn't be reached more easily and cheaply by interchange with other railroads.

The route was a tough mountain one, especially in the winter running through a region that didn't generate much traffic.

Back when the O&W went bankrupt the D&H still had pretty smart management, they knew a dog when they saw one. It wasn't like Guilford was in charge.

Sandusky ... Sandusky ... I've heard that name somewhere before? Ahhhh, it was a station on the B&S!
http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?BnS-be ... o.ny.track

Actually Otto, i will dig out of my archives the original papers the D&H did submit to someone, be it the ICC or whomever that they took over parts of the O&W (and some parts that they were interested in, but never operated) to continue service to those affected customers. Give me a week or so to find it and i will quote from it exactly what the terms were, but at one point it seemed the trustee wanted them to take most of it. It was interesting reading and certaioly would have changed the map in NYS, but it didn't materialize to the extent that they hoped for. Too many miles of trackage between customers=too many dollars spent for nothing in the end.

Well maybe the D&H didn't buy bits of the O&W but I know for a fact that a D&H S unit worked on a scrap train in the Walton, NY area.