Questions about the Railroad Police

talltim wrote:I assume the RR police are paid by the RR? What is their legal status? Are the glorified security guards or do they have the same powers as the regular police?
I ask because here in the UK RR police don't exist. There is a national British Transport Police but they are part of the 'real' police.

They are paid by the RR as they are a division of the RR itself. They have full police powers in any state the railroad owns trackage. While their primary focus is the railroad that employs them, they can most definatley pull you over and make an arrest if your commiting a crime. RR police departments used to be quite large and had everything the majority of major police departments had. But once Amtrak took over the passenger service from the freight railroads there was less work. That along with the budget crunching of the 80's and 90's and streamlining things the railroads find it much cheaper in the long run to simply pay insurance claims for theft. So the departments started to shrink to levels where they are really only there to handle the basics. In places i run, we have one officer for about 90 miles of track. I saw him a handful of times in 5 years. We had trailers getting broken into often, but the just pay the insurance.

As for Pan Am Police, last i spoke to one of them was a year ago, he said they have about 12 Police employees total inclduing the chief. He did not clarify how many of those were actually out on patrol but that was the number i got. Most PAR guys i talk to say they know of a few in the Ayer/Lawrence/Lowell area as well as one in Deerfield and one out west and there are a few up in Maine. So that would make sense.

Amtrak is very unique in that their police have powers in any state Amtrak stops in. If you do that math, that is alot of states. Aside from the FBI and the like, they are the only police force with that big an area.

http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/images/bmrrpd.jpg

Blasphemy

I'm not sure how many there used to be but before I left the RR a few years ago their numbers were cut drastically. Deerfield went from 2 to 1 and that guy's patrol range was rediculously large. Forget a fast response.

That said, the one's I knew were a very good bunch of guys and it was a pleasure working with them.

By the way, a lot of people, and fans, think they're "rent-a cops" or security guards, but as someone else pointed out, they have full police power authority and that includes the power of arrest. My last encounter with them was at Ayer several years ago when a number of them were sweeping railfans off the property. I was told in no uncertain terms that a traditional favorite spot of mine was off limits, and I haven't set foot there again!

That's right. Rent-a-cops they are not, nor local or state police... they almost have federal jurisdiction as their authority crosses state lines.

About 25 or so years ago, I had the opportunity to meet one of the officers at the Lawrence yard. He was a really nice guy and we got to talking not just about police activity but also about the railroad and railroads in general.

I found out his biggest problems in Lawrence at the time were vandals because the railroad was no longer carrying electronic goods such as VCRs and TVs (remember this was over 25 years ago).

He was an officer with the railroad as well as one with the Billerica PD. He asked me if I was interested in joining the force, but I told him I couldn't due to a bad right foot. I had just had surgery for a clubbed foot which required all of my toes and long bones to be cut and pinned. That alone put me at a disadvantage and I would never qualify for the physical.

John

chief holland who does he work for ?

are the controlled by state or federal jurisdiction as enforcement oficiers ?
how the heck do you get intouch wih these people?

Billmosh wrote:chief holland who does he work for ?

are the controlled by state or federal jurisdiction as enforcement oficiers ?
how the heck do you get intouch wih these people?

The Pan Am Police Chief works for Pan Am obviously. He would take orders more then likley from the President of the company. Fink, Mellon, whoever.

As for getting in touch with them, why not try the obvious, Just go to www.panamrailways.com

Right on the homepage there is a link to the company directory. Click that, then scroll down. Chief Holland is listed there with his phone number and email.

cpf354 wrote:By the way, a lot of people, and fans, think they're "rent-a cops" or security guards, but as someone else pointed out, they have full police power authority and that includes the power of arrest. My last encounter with them was at Ayer several years ago when a number of them were sweeping railfans off the property. I was told in no uncertain terms that a traditional favorite spot of mine was off limits, and I haven't set foot there again!

I still go to Ayer all the time, and I see them from time to time in an unmarked cruiser, usually with the orange "police" jacket hanging in one of the back windows. As long as you don't venture beyond the commuter rail platforms, they won't bother you, it's when your walking down towards yard lead or around the other side of the small maintenance area that they get anxious. I've even seen them park on that side road across the tracks from the station and he was stopping everybody that walked across the East wye to get to the street.

If there's a huge crowd of railfans in the trespassing areas, they might do a "railfan sweep" just to make things easier for them, but I've never had a problem with the RR cops (or any cops) in Ayer. There's even been times when I've flagged down the RR cop in Ayer to mention a few freight train passengers, or even once a railfan who seemed a little too eager to see more. Don't get me wrong, that was the only time I've ever ratted on a railfan, but if I see someone doing something illegal where they could be a physical threat to themselves or the train crews, I'm gonna mention it if I get the chance, and it turned out the guy I reported was trying to get a cab shot of a parked but running engine.

This is an interesting subject. I have mixed feelings about it.

Firstly, it seems RR cops are never around when someone SHOULD be arrested or "talked to". Like when a local drunk in Ayer climbs over the pig train... Instead they always seem to be around when someone who is totally harmless puts a toe 1" onto RR property.

Secondly, why is it they bother railfans, but not local people walking dogs or riding bikes? I see people walking or riding next to tracks all the time. And what about kids goofing off on the tracks? Happens all the time. Is it simply the railfan's camera that is a cop-magnet? Are they secretly equipped with GPS at the factory??

Thirdly, as with all cops, I am sure some B&M guys are all business, while some will just give you a "talk". Either way, I think railfans should remember that they are there to do a job, and thank their lucky stars they don't get in trouble for half of the things they do... The railroad isn't there to supply you with entertainment. They are a business and if someone messes around with track or equipment, something very bad can happen.

Lastly, with so few officers at the moment, the railroad should look on responsible railfans as an asset. I recently told the crew on MOAY that I may have seen the "rider" they were searching for running through Ayer station. The man thanked me for telling him.

JD

I actually saw my first rail cop in Maine at Northern Maine Junction last weekend. He had a black, unmarked Ford SUV. He had the full black uniform like cops I used to see in D4 out of East Deerfield. This one here didn't even care that I was sitting in the parking lot with my boy. The ones around D4 weren't bad either. Actually met Hal a few years back after 9/11. I think he's retired now. Can't remember the other one. Think his name might have been Mike. Both were actually pretty cordial. I used to see rail police on Conrail back in the day. They, too, were pretty cool. BTW, they are all totally legit with the same jurisdiction rights as of at least State troopers. It's the local "donut kings" you sometimes have to worry about.

I went home on leave last month (Manchester NH) for a few days. Haven't been home in years. While back in Manchester, I took in a Fishercats game. Was amazed to see that they built an impressive stadium right there in what use to be the Manchester Rail Yard. Was also amazed to see the number of baseball fans who walk along and across the tracks to get to and from the games. There are signs every 200 feet or so saying "do not cross" but most of the people I saw either didn't care or just can't read simple english. NEGS came down from Concord right around the 4th inning to pick up a string of cars and head north. There was "active" rail traffic and still people didn't care. It will be really interesting to see how this works out if and when they ever bring passenger rail back to Manchester.

Maybe the RR Police should hang out, watch a game or two, and make their presence known there.

Maybe the RR Police should hang out, watch a game or two, and make their presence known there.

Sounds like a good idea. Sometimes people need to be reminded what the stakes are when they treat railroad tracks too casually. Sure it works out 99% of the time, but the other 1% will get you killed. Physical and mental boundaries are healthy when it comes to railroads and the public.

If you don't already know it, the "Transit Police" (MBTA Police) are not Railroad Police in the traditional sense. They have full police authority in any city or town where the MBTA operates, which means that they have enforcement power in these locations whether or not it involves the MBTA. The only exception to this is in some of the outlining areas where the MBTA runs commuter rail where the Transit Police have "street railway police" power. In these areas, enforcement power is limited to incidences which physically begin or involve the MBTA, similiar to "Railroad Police" jurisdiction. By the way, somebody in a post above mentioned that Amtrak Police had extensive jurisdictional powers- more than just about any other police agency, except the FBI et al. Actually, they do have a wide jurisdiction and I can't think of a police agency that has more. However, the FBI generally does not fully fit into the category of "police" as their function, enforcement, and duties differ, so Amtrak PD pretty much probably wins the cigar regarding extensive jurisdiction. (Always love it in the movies how they portray cops. One of my favorites is the high speed vehicle pursuit where the pursued has to make it to the state line to evade the pusuing cops. He makes it and the cops have to stop at the state line, turn around and forget about it ! Hahahaha!!! Utter nonsense !)

3rdrail wrote:If you don't already know it, the "Transit Police" (MBTA Police) are not Railroad Police in the traditional sense. They have full police authority in any city or town where the MBTA operates, which means that they have enforcement power in these locations whether or not it involves the MBTA. The only exception to this is in some of the outlining areas where the MBTA runs commuter rail where the Transit Police have "street railway police" power. In these areas, enforcement power is limited to incidences which physically begin or involve the MBTA, similiar to "Railroad Police" jurisdiction. By the way, somebody in a post above mentioned that Amtrak Police had extensive jurisdictional powers- more than just about any other police agency, except the FBI et al. Actually, they do have a wide jurisdiction and I can't think of a police agency that has more. However, the FBI generally does not fully fit into the category of "police" as their function, enforcement, and duties differ, so Amtrak PD pretty much probably wins the cigar regarding extensive jurisdiction. (Always love it in the movies how they portray cops. One of my favorites is the high speed vehicle pursuit where the pursued has to make it to the state line to evade the pusuing cops. He makes it and the cops have to stop at the state line, turn around and forget about it ! Hahahaha!!! Utter nonsense !)

I can back this by the fact that I witnessed an automobile accident on Mass Ave in Boston nowhere near the T. The responding police car was an MBTA officer.