Portland and Brunswick Downeaster and Commuter options

Any news develoments on the "Proposed" Portland Bayside line to allow through Downeaster running to Brunswick. - Last I heard that the City of Portland finally got posession of the Union Branch Land and other land in the Bayside area of the city.

They've since done a good job extending Chestnut Street on a new highway out to Marginal Way directly across the middle of what I believe to be the future site of the Bayside station and parking lot - the rail of the Union branch has been removed and dumped to one side to allow this.

I'm sure that on www.downeastriders.us it stated that the Maine Govenor had requested a feasibilty plan of extending to Brunswick and other locations north of Portland - this to be delivered to the State Government by December 2006.

I mean its going to take a while before the "NEW" Portland Bayside station is set up plus a bridge across the entrance at back cove at Turkey's Bridge - so it is now just a question of funding

Im presuming the stated route to the north of Portland is to be S L & Atlantic down to East Deering (just north of Portland on other side of water at entrance to back cove), then S L & Atlantic to Yarmouth then Pan Am to Brunswick via Freeport

What of the chances in the short-term of Maine Eastern running a commuter service Brunswick or Bath to Portland and back via Pan Am and S L & Atlantic to East Deering to where the Maine Ski Train operation started/terminated and have a bus connection into Downtown Portland.

I'm not surehow attractive this would be to potential riders - as I-295 north of Portland is not too congested at morning and evening commuting times - any thoughts

Having said that Portland (East Deering) - Auburn / Lewiston should also be easily possible via this route for commuter traffic as well - what condition is the track on the S L & Atlantic these days - wasnt there some upgrading done a few years back for the Maine Ski train that used this route????

Also as a final thought, running the Summer Maine Eastern Rockland from Portland (East Deering) would surely increase ridership - espcially as it would also run via Freeport picking up further custom there - or allowing for Portland - Freeport riders

Is this possible or is it likely that Pan AM would veto the idea as they HAVE-TO allow Amtrak to run on their rails but I understand that anyone else can be told where to get off?????

Anyhow, these upgrades from East Deering to Brunswick and to Lewiston would not go wasted but be ready for use by Amtrak if and when the Portland Union Branch Bayside plan gets sorted

When I lived in Freeport, Maine from 2000 to 2003, the Amtrak service to Brunswick was going to be up and running by 2005, then 2007.

Now it is probably 2010 to 2013. Realistically, it will be another 15 years probably.

Just look at the rehab of the Lewiston lower branch, it is a good signal of how Maine manages railroad projects.

BWP

bwparker1 wrote:When I lived in Freeport, Maine from 2000 to 2003, the Amtrak service to Brunswick was going to be up and running by 2005, then 2007.

Now it is probably 2010 to 2013. Realistically, it will be another 15 years probably.

Just look at the rehab of the Lewiston lower branch, it is a good signal of how Maine manages railroad projects.

BWP

The state is looking for around 60 million for the project, but has yet to secure the funding.
As they say, talk is cheap. getting the money is another matter. They don't seem to be in much of a hurry.
The plan I always heard was use the old Union Branch at Bayside, build a new bridge alongside I-295 over to East Deering and use the St Lawrence and Atlantic (ex Grand Trunk) to Yarmouth Junction to get to Pan Am's Brunswick Branch(ex Lower Road main line). My guess is that as time goes by the most logical option will be simply to make a deal with Pan Am to continue to use their own main line to get to the Brunswick Branch at Royal Junction instead.
While the Downeaster has met or succeeded ridership projections, you have to wonder if the planners and politcians in Maine aren't as enamoured with the novelty of passenger trains now that they already have to Boston to Portland service, and perhaps have also seen just how costly it is to maintain it and how time consuming and difficult it is to guarantee funding over the long term.

That new bridge in Portland is the sticking point. I think
eventually they'll abandon that plan to save some $$$;
that's the only way the project will get built.

cpf354 wrote:The plan I always heard was use the old Union Branch at Bayside, build a new bridge alongside I-295 over to East Deering and use the St Lawrence and Atlantic (ex Grand Trunk) to Yarmouth Junction to get to Pan Am's Brunswick Branch(ex Lower Road main line).

They can't even use the Ex-Union Branch as the ROW has been pretty much gobbled up by development. They would have to build a new ROW that would parallel 295.

I think you are both right in that this plan will eventually be abandonded in favor of the existing PAN AM ROW through Woodsford - Deering - Falmouth - Yarmouth.

The Portland Union Branch is still in existence - at least it was last week when I looked - checkout Google Earth to confirm this - the developments have come pretty close to it and the City or the State has extended Chestnut Street down to Marginal Way across the Rail Bed putting a small Rotary right in the center of the Bayside station site but apart from this I think restoring the right-of-way would be OK - just a question of how the neighbors of the ROW will react to having regular and faster than walking pace - 15-30mph?? rail services running so close to their property.

There is also the issue of crossing Forest Avenue and Franklin Arterial right at the I-295 off ramps - what will this do to road traffic back-ups - will this lead to the highway authority dictating at what times train movements can and cannot take place?

just a question of how the neighbors of the ROW will react to having regular and faster than walking pace - 15-30mph?? rail services running so close to their property.

There is also the issue of crossing Forest Avenue and Franklin Arterial right at the I-295 off ramps - what will this do to road traffic back-ups - will this lead to the highway authority dictating at what times train movements can and cannot take place?

They could always build a cut-and-cover tunnel under Bayside under the Union Branch ROW.

Ok, so that would be astronomically expensive. Just trying to think outside the box.

From what I remember, the traditional MeC route to points east is rather circuitous, with many grade crossings. I know the new build route along the I-295 corridor (including a new bridge and the A&SL to Yarmouth) would be very expensive, but it would make the passenger service times much more competitive. Maybe some arrangement could be made to allow PanAm to use the route, allowing a cut back of the current line and all its crossings. The costs and dealing with the exit ramps would be a problem but where there's a will there's a way! Someday.....

To me the obvious - but probably most expensive route is the I-295 route but would ideally need to be at a high level involving bridges across the Forest Avenue and Franklin Arterial I-295 ramps with a station in near the AAA Northern New England Offices between Marginal Way and I-295 opposite Planet Fitness (between Forest Avenue and the Franklin Arterial).

I would have thought that there is also anough room out for providing a parking lot as well as bus stop factilites for around town buses - maybe also room for a replica Union Station clock tower to house the restored clock currently sitting in its glass box on Congress Square in downtown Portland.

Now whether such a station would need to have 1 or 2 tracks (to allow for passing trains) and whether the platforms at those tracks need to be full length or not to allow for large numbers of passenger embark / disembark is also a good question - would some additional tracks be needed for any locomotive changes or car storage be needed - i'm think of future DE expansion traffic requirements to Brunswick, Lewiston, Augusta (maybe? and beyond???) and summer services to Rockland. If you are building a bridge you want to build it big enough for future expansion - not just for traffic levels at the present time - just need to be careful that the $$$$ do not get out of hand and kill a project.......

See some of the posts under the "MEC station in Bath(ME) being rehabed" thread in this section for more information and "ideas".

Bud

Hi Amymoose-- in regards to the commuter train options, I think you're on the money-- someday the state is going to want to run commuter trains from Brunswick to Portland and probably from Lewiston as well, maybe maybe Augusta, but that's a longer shot. The question, I think is when. I haven't been in the Southern Maine planning loop for a while now, but when I was (half a decade ago), the Brunswick-Portland stretch was the top priority. Those towns north of Portland have been growing fast and with the Brunswick Naval Air Station closing down and Bowdoin College planning lots of growth, a rail link with Portland and on to Boston will be critical (particularly when it comes to attracting new business to the air station, which I would imagine would be high-technology related). It's a likely candidate for Downeaster expansion, but I think whoever said that it won't be for another 10 years is probably right, unless Brunswick really lights a fire about this. Considering how critical a juncture the town is at right now in terms of growth, they just might.

The Lewiston Lower Branch rehab was done, I think with passenger service in mind for the long term. The last two governors have had big plans for the Lewiston-Brunswick-Augusta triangle, much of it centered around bio-tech and other high technology sectors. It's taken 10+ years for the state to figure out that you can't attract those kinds of industries without infrastructure and incentives. Transportation is really critical to that mix, but I don't think the Lower Branch will see any kind of regular commuter service until the state tries out some high tech development in Brunswick first, through some combination of infrastructure improvements (rail, a re-routing of route 1 off of Pleasant Street is long overdue, and TIFs to lure companies up from Boston), I think Lewiston is strictly wait and see.

Beyond that, the outlying candidates are Augusta and Kittery. When I really think about it now, Kittery is probably a better candidate than Augusta, which, even though it's the state capitol doesn't strike me as a high-demand commuter destination. The highway up there isn't even close to capacity-- really the automobile trouble spots are on the local roads that lead to the coast and hook up with Route 1 down by Waldoboro and Camden. Kittery, though, might fit into the state's economic development plans better. Basically from Biddeford down to Kittery you've got a lot of Boston exiles, a good number of whom commute either by car, bus or on the Downeaster to Boston every day. If those folks had regular service to Portland you could start talking about drawing more jobs away from Boston-- technology, medical, education, finance, really good jobs that Maine has been trying desperately for 20 years to attract only with limited overall success. It might help the cause if the MBTA extended it's commuter rail to Kittery. Again, another far-off possibility, but it's been on the table for a while now.

So all Maine has to do is:
1. Connect the DE through Portland to Brunswick
2. Connect Lewiston to Portland commuter service
3. Connect Kittery to Portland commuter service

No problem. Anybody have half a billion dollars lying around?

Old Topic New Subject:

As I have mentioned in some previous posts the Maine Eastern operation on the former MEC Rockland Division seems well prepared to being commuter operations on day one. This was in part based on my own personal impressions of the condition of the line when I went on the 470 Club Excursion earlier this spring. Today on NERAIL Photo someone posted some great photos showing exactly just how good the condition of the line currently is. Notice the rail profile, great ballast, and clean straight and true gauging as well as the tie condition.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20080 ... 363003.jpg

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20080 ... 512908.jpg

The conditions shown in this photo are typical for the rest of the entire line all the way to Rockland.

Things are looking better everyday.

I went to a DOT presentation at a chamber meeting probably 6-7 years ago. They had all kinds of maps and information about a couple of things mentioned here. First, when they (they being Portland/MDOT) revamped Bayside in Portland, the 295 ROW was expanded to include a 50' (or something like that) strip right along the highway for trains, to relocate the MEC trackage. Second, the DOT plan was to have commuter service from Brunswick, Freeport and Yarmouth/Cumberland (by the DOT garage) to Portland. That would tie into the Downeaster/Maine Eastern combo.

I know up here in L/A the "Lewiston-Auburn Railroad" people are still quietly picking away at their plans for passenger service to downtown Lewiston, via the lower, and there is still a dream of Montreal service. (with MDOT and the Mtn Div, you kind of have to wonder if they would do it using that route, instead of just hooking it in to the SLR and running right up a line already in great shape!).

I seriously doubt that MDOT would send trains to Montreal and bypass Auburn. Although the Mountain Division may be restored to service in the near future (5-10 years) I don't think they want to bypass Lewiston-Auburn in their efforts to use Rail as a form of economic development. Using the Mountain Division would only give more fuel to the argument of other Mainers that rail based economic development only benefits Portland and Southern Maine. Using St. Lawrence & Atlantic trackage allows them to create new stakeholders in the Lewiston-Auburn area. It also permits them to create more momentum for pushing restored passenger service north of Lewiston.

One of the issues that MDOT faces in their drive to restore passenger service into Maine is the question of routing in Central Maine. Everyone knows that it will be easy to justify routing new passenger service to Augusta and that one way or another it will eventually happen because it is an obvious political decision. However getting new service connections between Lewiston and Waterville over the Back Road is not as obvious a political decision, however it is probably the more essential decision of the two (Lewiston-Waterville or Brunswick-Augusta-Waterville).

There are many reasons why this is the case but among them are getting Guildford/PAR further involved in passenger operations in Maine. If MDOT allows Guildford/PAR to confine passenger operations to the B&M Main Line from Portland South then it becomes very difficult in the future to expand north of Waterville as the ONLY line available from Waterville to Bangor is the Guildford/PAR main.

Getting service from Brunswick to Augusta is easy because it is state owned track and they already have a willing operator in Maine Eastern/Morristown & Erie. Getting service from Augusta to Waterville is also not a really giant leap of the imagination because the line is lightly serviced (once or twice a week) north of Augusta and would not impose a serious disruption to the Guildford/PAR customers on the line.

However putting passenger service on the line between Lewiston-Waterville is another question entirely. This is currently the only active rail connection in Maine for North-South through freight and also for originating freight coming off the Rumford Branch. The majority of Guilford/PAR freight in the state of Maine travels on this line usually including at least one northbound and one southbound freight daily with occasional (and recently more frequent) extras and MOW crews. The line is probably Class II right now but could be brought up to Class III standards without serious difficulty.

Thus one of the main reasons that Lewiston/Auburn is being pushed so hard, aside from the $40 million pricetag to rehabilitate the Mountain Division to Class III status is that it does not serve MDOT's political needs for further relationship building between them and Guilford/PAR to bypass the Lewiston/Auburn option and use the Mountain Division for Montreal service.

Using Lewiston-Auburn does allow them to create new stakeholders in rail passenger service, give them the opportunity to further develop their operating agreements with Guilford/PAR through the NNERPA for passenger operations on the Back Road, create the possibility of service to Waterville north and attract more interest from northern Maine in restored rail service, and it allows them to seriously consider Montreal rail passenger service over SLR trackage that is probably a healthy Class III right now and could be almost immediately converted for passenger service use.

Since both routes to Montreal would have to travel through NH, has NHDOT had any say in the matter? I know they own at least the notch portion of the Mountain Division, and wouldn't it make more sense for them to route through North Conway for Canadian tourist dollars now that Berlin is out of Business (unless they start running prison trains)?