East End Service: Greenport Scoot, Montauk Line, Etc.

I can understand what you are saying. However, pretty much, the eastern end of Long Island is typically meant for tourists, not year round people. The Upper Harlem on the other hand, the area around it is becoming slowly populated. Also, Wassaic is closer to the city than much of the places on eastern LI. A lot of places on eastern LI are "Amtrak" distance away.

Noel Weaver wrote:Metro-North to Wassaic which is 82 miles out of Grand Central has around
twelve trains each way a day on weekdays. Wassaic is a tiny community as compared to Riverhead for example. Wassaic has at least four trains
in the rush hour that run right through to Grand Central.
Greenport is shown in an old timetable as being about 96 miles out of New
York with two shuttles Ronkonkoma with an extra round trip Riverhead.
This makes no sense and it is no wonder that no one is riding this line.
Wassaic has a non rush hour shuttle train about every two hours, it would
make sense if Greenport and Montauk for that matter too had like service
as there is not a big difference in the distance from New York.
A lot of money also went into the Harlem Line to Wassaic as it now has
C.T.C. and cab signals.
Why don't the people on the north fork of Long Island have better service?
I suspect that it might have something to do with political pull. People on
Long Island need to demand from their state that the service be much
improved.
I should not take a huge amount of additional equipment to improve the
service on these lines and it should be done.
I think this is a "no brainer".
Noel Weaver

Look at the Port Jervis line. It's a similar distance and it terminates in New Jersey. Back in the 1970s, there were two RTs daily; now 11 RTs, the last of which (11:55 pm) should carry a sleeper and be extended to Binghamton.

The only reason the mainline east is lightly used is because of the terrible nonexistent service on it. Medford is a huge community, Yaphank is getting built up too. The passengers would come if they ran normal service. You can't move around the Riverhead Outlet Center most of the time it's so busy. The least they should do is run two hourly service between RIverhead and Rocnkonkoma.

They should definately be increasing service to Riverhead big time. They should also re-open Manorville station, and build a new one for Tanger. Maybe even re-open Calverton(or is that area not that populated?).

And they should definately have a train going from either Greenport all the way to either Jamaica or even NYP. I could make all stops to Ronkonkoma, then Hicksville, Mineola, Jamaica, NYP. Maybe a stop or two between Hicksville and Ronkonkoma, like Deer Park.

They would definately get some good ridership if they would boost Riverhead service, especially from a new stop at Tanger. And I bet that 1 direct train would see the majority of the ridership if scheduled at the right time. Hell, even if it went just to Jamaica I bet it'd see the majority of the ridership.

I think they should electrify and double track it to Riverhead.

They don't need to electrify yet. Especially not on 2 hr headways, and definately not on the headways they got now. And I'm not too sure 2 hr headways would require double tracking either. The line between Farmingdale and Ronkonkoma though is a different. That needed to be double tracked years ago, and the need to do so has only increased.

NIMBYkiller wrote:They don't need to electrify yet. Especially not on 2 hr headways, and definately not on the headways they got now. And I'm not too sure 2 hr headways would require double tracking either. The line between Farmingdale and Ronkonkoma though is a different. That needed to be double tracked years ago, and the need to do so has only increased.

If they electrify to Port Jefferson, they wouldn't need to spend the money to double track to Ronkonkoma. Electrification to PJ would take stress off the Ronkonkoma Branch. Ronkonkoma runs frequent enough service on the line now, with just it's single track, if PJ was electrified, it would need the double tracking even less, as North Shore people would move over to the Port Jeff line.

From what I saw at Port Jeff on my last trip to LI (2001) the parking facilities there are bulging at the seams already!

And . . I believe you need a special permit to park there as well, just as you always needed at Patchogue and other depot areas.

Dave Keller

I lived in Mount Sinai in the early 90's and commuted everyday to Penn. PJ was a five minute car ride for me. But, where did I take the train from? Ronkonkoma. Why? Because of the parking. There is NOWHERE to park in PJ. The parking situation there is nothing new. Aside from a limited amount of space, only residents can park there. It was stated above that electrifying PJ will take the strain off Ronkonkoma because north shore people will switch. The only way that's going to happen is if somebody finds a way to park 2000 cars at PJ or Stony Brook. Otherwise, people are just going to continue doing what they're used to and electricfication will be just another huge waste of money from the LIRR.

I say LIRR double tracks PJ and Ronkonkoma before it becomes even more expensive to do so. That way there is room for the expanded service in the future that WILL happen, especially with the comming of the mainline 3rd track.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:I can understand what you are saying. However, pretty much, the eastern end of Long Island is typically meant for tourists, not year round people. The Upper Harlem on the other hand, the area around it is becoming slowly populated. Also, Wassaic is closer to the city than much of the places on eastern LI. A lot of places on eastern LI are "Amtrak" distance away.

Rather than go on and on about how stupid the above post is, I'll just chalk it up to someone who lives "in-island". The East End (both forks) is one of the few growth areas of Long Island, and the "year round" population continues to increase on both forks, it is truly not just for "tourists". Our "New Englandesque" villages on the North Fork provide a quality of life that is unmatched anywhere else on LI or the metro area for that matter. Comparing our idiotic level of train service to the level of service provided on the Upper Harlem Line, or Port Jervis Line is correct, as the distances from NYC are VERY similar to the distances from Penn
along the Greenport Line. It is clear that LIRR Senior Management just does not get it when it comes to the ridership potential along the East End and this has to stop.

In addition to starting a petition drive gainst the possible closing of the Greenport Line we are also going to petition the MTA for Mr. Dermody's resignation. Perhaps Mr. Dermody should be working for MTA/NYC Transit, or MTA/Long Island Bus, these seem to be the only areas (NYC, Nassau County) that he has any focus on.

Ken
Peconic, NY

How'd you come to the conclussion of Dermody having any focus on LIB?

Ken..

Be careful what you wish for. If train service to the North Fork rivalled the better serviced areas of LI, then you will lose that bucolic paradise you live in. Once service was dramatically improved on the Mainline to Ronkonkoma, there was a population and development explosion in Eastern Suffolk. Real Estates were touting the "59 minute" commute to NYC as an incentive to purchase homes in Eastern Suffolk.

Part of that increase in Mainline service is affecting your North Fork. People move out there and figure they can commute from Ronkonkoma in a reasonable time. And they are right. Another is the post-Sept.11th exodus from NYC. Its evident with the proliferation of BMW SUV's blaring their horns, cutting people off like it was Madison Ave. Oh yeah, real "east enders" I bet. They spend 800K on some poorly built house in a development that was a farm the previous year, then complain about over-developing.

Already, the Town of Southold has instituted some of the most restrictive zoning in the Country to try to stem the tide of development. Accessability by the masses to the North Fork is a major factor in development and once you breach that "wall" your "New Englandish" villages are going change.

Mr. Dermody has nothing to do with abandoning any branches. If you petitioned the MTA for his resignation, it would have no effect on any decisions regarding abandonment. The MTA Board is the key Ken, not Mr. Dermody.

If you really think that with greatly increased service that you are still going to retain your paradise..go ahead, push for it and in 10 yrs you'll be wondering what happened to it.

I think the residents of New York State should be after their elected people
to downsize the MTA which has definately become "TOO BIG FOR THEIR
BRITCHES".
Most of these bureaucrats likely have big, plush offices and lots of highly
paid staff as well. I'll bet they have huge expense accounts too.
As I have said before, a big cut at the MTA level should come first.
I do not think the LIRR or Metro-North local management is responsible
for most of this mess.
Noel Weaver

Interesting points, BUT we are not calling for "Ronkonkoma" style frequencies, frankly a level similar to the Port Jervis line would increase our quality of life without turning us into "the rest of the island".

Quality of life is NOT having to drive to Ronkomkoma,Speonk or Westhampton for decent train service, or being forced into using the Sunrise Express Bus.

On the issue of Mr. Dermody, the MTA told me directly that they are not the ones proposing to close the services east of Ronkonkoma, according to a Mr. Sussman at the MTA, the MTA asked all it's agencies to submit cost cutting proposals for 2006, and this is what the LIRR came back with.
The MTA DID NOT make these proposals, the LIRR DID!

AS a resident of Southold Town I support our very limited development
allowance, but even here we are going to allow limited new developments where "work force" housing is part of the mix. Our town Supervisor has asked Mr. Dermody to sit down with us to plan for improved LIRR service as part of our master plan and Mr. Dermody has yet to respond.

We need improved train service tailored for the year round community, and thsi lack of service on the part of the LIRR is one of many reaons why Dermody must go!

Ken