Turboliners

If they (New York State) want to write off the service west of Albany, then
they could probably take over Albany - New York but west of Albany, a
totally different story.
I don't think the CSX wants too much to do with the State of New York
over this service and if New York assumes full responsibility for its
operation, then they will also likely assume full responsibility for the costs
involved. Metro-North employees earn much more in pay and conditions
than Amtrak employees do and the state would then be responsible for
the full cost of providing this service.
I am still not sold that New York is such a great operator of railroad
services. OK, they operate them all-right but at a huge cost, probably
more than necessary in some cases. I still question the need to replace
completely the shop facilities in Harmon.
I doubt if the people in the areas to be served by New York State will be
happy about paying the MTA taxes either.
I think New York State is putting themselves in a corner and building a
fence around it, makes no sense to me.
I do not think New York States spends their railroad money wisely and
this is not something new, some things have been good such as the West
Side access to Penn Station and the second track and signal upgrades.
Some things not so good such as the Farley Building in New York City,
The Turbo Trains, upgrading a freight line from 8 - 10 MPH to 40 MPHand then two years later closing it down and tearing up the track, rebuilding the 65th Street yard in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn (the yard is mostly un-used) and building a new station (completely gutted and rebuilt actually) for two
state supported trains a day.
In my opinion, 95 per cent of the fault with the Turbo Train situation lies
with New York State.
Noel Weaver

From my second trip aboard a Turboliner, this time on trainset #2:

http://img52.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img52&image=PA200070.jpg

A NYS takeover of NYP-ALB service would open a Pandora's box. First, where would the money come from? NYS is strapped. Downstaters would object to money being taken away from subways and commuter rail.

Considering the highly dysfunctional nature of NYS government, better to stick with the devil we know.

As much as I think the Turboliners are cool, I also think VIA Rail proves that you don't need unconventional or ultra-high tech equipment in order to provide decent high speed service. Lest we forget, in terms of average speed this is the fastest train in North America:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=79064

VIA's Montreal - Toronto trains make the run in as little as 4 hours, for an average speed of about 85 mph. This is with a modest 100 mph top speed and using P42 diesels. The only thing "unconventional" vs. Amtrak's existing equipment is the active tilt feature of the LRC coaches.

I'm sure that Amtrak's P32AC-DM hauled Amfleet trains are more than capable of meeting the 2 hour NYP - ALB target with some modest track upgrades to the already fast route.

Regardless of whether the track gets upgraded for 125 mph or remains 110 mph between Hudson and Albany, it would be nice to see them install concrete ties. Much of the line south of Poughkeepsie already has concrete ties, and currently supports 90 mph operation. Also, regardless of how the high speed rail program turns out, I think adding a second track between Albany and Schenectady is certainly worthwhile.

More commentary appearing in the
Albany Times Union on the subject.

Noel,

Where is the freight track that was upgraded? Is it still rated for 40mph? Also, where are the other stops that were gutted and rebuilt? Why is the 65th Yard in Brooklyn so underused?

ElTrain wrote:Noel,

Where is the freight track that was upgraded? Is it still rated for 40mph? Also, where are the other stops that were gutted and rebuilt? Why is the 65th Yard in Brooklyn so underused?

To answer the above,
First question, the West Shore Secondary (later industrial) Track between
Rotterdam Junction and South Fort Plain was up-graded with state money
sometime in the late 1970's, I will need to check further to establish just
exactly when and in less than two years, the state decided not to
subsidize the freight service on this line and the plug was pulled, the track
was pulled up beyond South Amsterdam about that time. The last I knew,
the track still is in place to South Amsterdam to serve the quarry at that
location although CSX has filed to abandon it.
Second question, I only mention a station, it is Saratoga Springs. I do
not begrudge Saratoga Springs an improved facility but question its need
for only one New York State supported train, The Adirondack. The train
to/from Rutland also stops there but that train is paid for by Vermont.
I think they probably could have done a cosmetic job for much less and
still have had a decent facility. I never found the old station all that bad,
it was/is staffed and warm in the winter.
Next question, the 65th Street Yard in Brooklyn is the old Long Island
Rail Road Bay Ridge facility which was operated in behalf of the New
Haven Railroad and went out of operation when the Penn Central takeover
took place in January of 1969. The tracks were generally removed and
the buildings either demolished or left to rot or be destroyed by the local
youth. The State of New York rebuilt that place back in the 1980's with
the idea that the railroads would go back to floating cars again which
never happened to any great extant. A gross waste of taxpayer's money
for nothing.
Hope this answers your questions.
Noel Weaver

Mr. Weaver

Thank you for your effort and answers!

This matter simply will not die a natural death.

Reportage, as distinct from opinion posted earlier, as presented by theAlbany Times Union.

That article makes the situation seem rather bleak. However, I just cannot see three newly refurbished high speed trainsets with hardly any miles on them going to waste. I would be surprised and outraged if they were to never return to revenue service.

I think at this point they should follow through with putting three trainsets into service (or four, if the fourth set is nearly complete), as the money's already been spent on 'em, and expand each of those trainsets to 6 cars as David Gunn had suggested. The track upgrades are a separate matter, and should have no bearing on getting the Turbos back in service.

My suggestion for the track upgrades would be for New York to put up or shut up. Amtrak is obviously underfunded, and if New York wants Amtrak to pay for upgrades on CSX-owned track then they should take it up with Congress. How expensive would it be to improve the tracks from Poughkeepsie to Albany for 125 mph operation? They're already Class 6 (110 mph) tracks. I say put in concrete ties (not a necessity, but certainly advantageous) and upgrade them to Class 7 status, and call it a day. If additional funding can be made available, add the second track between Albany and Schenectady.

The move [of the Turbos to Delaware] prompted state Transportation Commissioner Joseph Boardman to accuse Amtrak of stealing the state-owned trains.

Weren't the Turbos sitting on Amtrak property? If so, the "stealing" argument doesn't cut it.

If someone leaves his broken widget on my desk, you can be sure it'll end up in the closet. Later, the trash.

so if I told you to run my BMW and you decided to park it at your dealer, who transfered it to a out of state BWM dealer ??
Supersteel offered to fix the AC under warranty , Amtrak declined bt now uses the AC as excuse.

They offered to "fix" the AC, but at what cost? The turbo project was/is already way over the price to rebuild the entire fleet, and only three were done. The shops at Albany/Renn should have been the contract rebuilder, as no one knew the turbo's better than the personel that have spent 25 years keeping them running.

Personally, although I did enjoy running the turbo's, the glitchs that they had never seemed to get worked out completely, and therefore they were sometimes a headache to run.

The turboliners were okay. They has better acceleration then a genesis although, the stops on the Empire Corridor are not as close to one another as the Keystone. If anything needs to be fixed, then that has to be done. The main issue that really irks me is the fact that NY DOT should have rehabilitated the Empire corridor first. I can't stress how CRITICAL that second track is needed between just past LAB and Schnectady. 2:25 between NYC and "The Cathedral" is good but it can be better. Whenever you are rehabilitating any line. You always should focus on maintaining the right of way, then think about new equipment.

CREngineer wrote:...and only three were done.

What's the real story there, though? What is that status of trainsets 4 and 5? I seem to recall that they were largely completed, but Amtrak was supposed to supply the turbines and transmissions for them.