West Side stadium over LIRR yard

Tht NY Times says a new Jets stadium on the far West Side is on the way - http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/24/nyreg ... AD.html?hp

I don't really care one way or the other (I'm a Giants fan) if they build it. But I am concerned that if they build it, there might not be room for the 12th Ave. linear yard for NYP as proposed by ARC - http://www.accesstotheregionscore.com/w ... rterm.html

This is an all-NY deal and I'm sure, as usual, NJ commuters will be an afterthought.

If they do plan to build that stadium then they had better build the following 1st

1. The double track tunnel between NY and NJ with expanded/new concourses at NYP.

2. The 7 line extension to PABT, NYP and the terminating station at Jacob Javits.

Because once that stadium is built there is no way in hell will I use the Lincoln Tunnel ever and get caught in a massive gridlock. It's bad enough on the Vanwyck and surrounding highways/roads when goign to and from JFK during a Yankees/Mets Games when the fans go in and out.

I was just musing a bit.......50,000 fans jamming the West Side. No subway line close....Penn Stn Farley....several blocks away.....and parking.......forget it!!! Even with extension of the #7 and more platforms at Farley......50,000 fans on trains....100/car = 500 cars!!! That's one helluva train!!! ....or 50 10 car trains!! running 3 min headways... Bring it on!!!!

The 7 train needs to be extended to near the Javits Center even if none of the other West Side plans ever come to fruition.

One problem with the stadium plan, per the NY Times: "Despite the push by the governor and the mayor, the projects still face a series of hurdles, including an environmental review, zoning approvals, state legislation for the Javits expansion and any legal actions." Also, "The $1.4 billion stadium has been the project's most debated element. While the $1.4 billion Javits expansion has wide support, some Broadway theater owners, community groups and elected officials fear the stadium will displace working-class residents and increase traffic congestion and pollution. Most everyone predicts there will be lawsuits." This includes the residents of the neighborhood fighting against the stadium, as well as many who oppose spending government money on private stadiums.

The Times: "To blunt criticism by economists that stadiums are poor public investments, the city has worked with the Jets to design the stadium so that it can be used for conventions, trade shows, meetings and plenary sessions, as well as concerts and other sporting events." Of course, this cuts into business at Madison Square Garden, a mere 4 blocks away. Duh.

Of course the Javits Center needs to be expanded, but there are alternative plans to this stupid stadium idea....and I work in a business directly related to New York City convention business.

The NY Times also cites plans for a 75,000-seat stadium. So, the biggest problem, as I see it, is how the Jets are gonna draw that additional 25,000 fans.

Still, the silver lining for me is that it would get the Jets out of OUR stadium (and New Jersey)! Go Big Blue!

OK - here I go unrelated to NJT:

The NY Times also cites plans for a 75,000-seat stadium. So, the biggest problem, as I see it, is how the Jets are gonna draw that additional 25,000 fans.

Giants stadium holds 77,000 and the Jets sell out so aditional fans not needed.

Still, the silver lining for me is that it would get the Jets out of OUR stadium (and New Jersey)! Go Big Blue!

And we really want to go. It is about time the Jets get their own stadium for the first time in their history (it just should not be in the middle of Manhattan)

BTW, apparently the state of NY is somewhat opposed to extending the 7 train even if the stadium is built (It is the city of NY that is most interested). An article in the times recently said:

"State officials prefer to spend scarce construction money on the $6.3 billion East Side Access project, which would allow Long Island Rail Road commuters to board their trains at Grand Central Terminal, a huge boon to Long Island residents who work on the East Side of Manhattan. They also want to pursue the long-delayed Second Avenue subway."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/19/nyregion/19seven.html

I know that politically this would never fly but if the 7 train is extended to the new stadium what about continuing it in a 4 track bi-level tunnel (like the East side tunnel that LIRR now wants to use) to a park and ride in NJ. This has been proposed before but it would definitely help Lincoln Tunnel traffic and reduce the number of polluting buses that need to be run into NYC.

Nice avatar, Mark. Is that the EL bridge over the Morris-Essex Tpke. (aka Rt. 124) next to Benihana?

I think extending the 7 train beyond the Javits (at least to 23rd St./Chelsea Piers and perhaps into Greenwich Village) would be a better way to go, especially considering the plan to add under-river capacity to Penn Sta.

I say run the 7 from TSQ to NYP-Javits Center-Chelsea Piers-14th St-Christopher St-maybe Houston St-Canal St-WTC/Fulton St

The 7 to the WTC? That's one thing that I wish could happen but won't. The 7 will go no further south then Javits. This project has better be on line in 2012 if NY/NJ will have the Olympics.

The East side access project and 2nd Ave Subway is nice but the city and state of NY should've had this on line 10-20 yrs ago! If NYC plans to build the stadium and have the olympics in 2012 then the 2nd Ave and East Side project will help very little with the crowds compared to the 7 line extension and the double track hudson tunnel project with expanded/new concourses

Nice avatar, Mark. Is that the EL bridge over the Morris-Essex Tpke. (aka Rt. 124) next to Benihana?

Thanks Alan. You are correct about the location. It is from an early 20th century post card.

I say MTA 1st works on 7 to Javits and ESA, then SAS and ESA, then 7 to downtown and SAS. That'd space things out pretty nice.

Mark Schweber wrote: Thanks Alan. You are correct about the location. It is from an early 20th century post card.

Is that looking eastbound toward Benihana/Kings, or looking westbound toward the upscale residential neighborhood?

If the city/state want to "revitalize" the West Side, what really needs to be built is a line down the West Side from the 1-2-3-9 station at 72nd Street all the way down to South Ferry, with a connection to the 7 at the Javits Center. It could follow 11th Ave. all the way to Chelsea Piers.

I say "revitalize" in quotes because what they're really looking to do is steal the homes of thousands (tens of thousands?) of people to give to Pataki and Bloomberg's developer friends. Still, you can't make the West Side a destination without a decent way to get there...from all over the city, from Grand Central, from Port Authority, from Christopher St. and/or WTC PATH stations, from the S.I. Ferry, etc.

If they want to open the stadium/Javits expansion by 2008 (when the Jets' lease in NJ runs out), they better start digging for the 7 extension NOW!

I underestiimated!! 77,000 fans.....ok that's 770 cars if you assume 100 persons per car. 10 car trains......77 of them??? at 3 min headways (assuming that is even possible) almost 4 hrs worth of trains before and then again after the game? And where are all those 'empty' cars gonna come from?

Or the alternative, even at 4 fans per vehicle (auto that is) where ya gonna park about 10,000 cars if half drive, and other half take busses or whatever to get there?

Is that looking eastbound toward Benihana/Kings, or looking westbound toward the upscale residential neighborhood?

I had always assumed it was looking westbound but I will go by the site and take a look to see if I can determine for sure.

I still can't beleive another stadium is beign built in NYC. I say if it's built turn it into a multi use facility so that they can also house the Knicks and Rangers. Then we can tear down that butt ugly structure called MSG which is already crumbling with that sewer called "Penn Station" then rebuild the old NYP.

This is one of the stipulations should be made if Bloomburg/Pataki really want their stadium bad enough.

The other is that the H Tunnel with new concourses at NYP should start construction alogn with the 7 extension followed by the ESA and SAS.

If Pataki and Bloomburg and thei boys follows through on these demands then they can have their stadium. If they don't and do open the stadium anyway the gridlock though midtown and downtown is more then enough to limit my visits into the city. It's bad enough now why make it worse if not even one of the rail projects will be done by that time.

You can forget busses because NYC is already "bused out" Now it's time for the trains to do the job via MTA(7 extension and SAS) LIRR(ESA) and NJT and PA of NY&NJ (H tunnels).