• National Docks/lines in Hoboken and Jersey City

  • Discussion related to the operations and equipment of Consolidated Rail Corp. (Conrail) from 1976 to its present operations as Conrail Shared Assets. Official web site can be found here: CONRAIL.COM.
Discussion related to the operations and equipment of Consolidated Rail Corp. (Conrail) from 1976 to its present operations as Conrail Shared Assets. Official web site can be found here: CONRAIL.COM.

Moderators: TAMR213, keeper1616

  by FL9711
 
I remember when I was a kid driving on the west side highway, looking accross the Hudson River and seeing freight trains along the river. I would see train on this line very often, but as time went on the trains stopped. It was not until a few weeks ago that I did some research on this line. It was once the Conrail National Docks Line. The line is now the NJT light rail. The only thing that remains is some track in the Jersey City near Hoboken ave. If anyone has any pictures/ or more information please let me know.

Thanks
  by Noel Weaver
 
The Conrail National Docks is not the line through Hoboken which is now NJT Light Rail. The National Docks linked the
Oak Island Yardto the River Line via two different routes at one time but only one remains today. At one time you could branch off and go through the old Erie freight tunnel to Croxton and up the Northern to the swamp switch and link to the River Line at that location. You could also link to the River Line at Nave and continue through Weehawken, the tunnel to North Bergen and continue north from there.
What was at one time many years ago a different assortment of connections between the railroads that originally made up
Conrail is today a through route (what remains) between Oak Island and Selkirk. A train can also use the P & H Branch to
Marion to Croxton and link up to the River Line there as well.
I am using the locations that I remember from my time working in this territory but things have changed in the 25 plus
years since I worked this territory.
Noel Weaver
  by FL9711
 
Thanks for putting me on the right track. I have been using google earth to look at a lot of the train lines in the NYC area. I am finding it sad that so many train lines are gone. I always thought the one through Hoboken was cool. Why did Conrail give up this line?
  by Sir Ray
 
FL9711 wrote:Thanks for putting me on the right track. I have been using google earth to look at a lot of the train lines in the NYC area. I am finding it sad that so many train lines are gone. I always thought the one through Hoboken was cool. Why did Conrail give up this line?
I believe at the time Conrail sold the line, there was only 2 active freight clients left anyway (a chemical firm on Hoboken's west side, and a lumber yard). Since then the chemical firm has closed down and the site redeveloped (to retail? I forget - last time I was there was over 2 years ago) - the drive to redevelop the former industrial areas in Hoboken's west side was simply too strong, and HBLRT is a major component of this effort.
Redevelopment into retail & residental means no need for freight service...
  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
Could the thousands of looted cars and containers, over the years, by the "Projects Pirates" have had any effect on this? Every train I ran through there had a police escort, and even with that, the trains got parted and/or stopped, and were looted, under the watchful eyes of Conrails Finest........ Even running twice the speed limit, with a minimum set on the trains, the local "cargo commandos" would somehow board the cars, open the plug doors, and start unloading. Containers and trailers faired no better, and the local economy of the housing projects was supported entirely on stolen freight, from Conrail trains. ANY route away from Hoboken would have been a welcomed relief....... :wink:
  by FL9711
 
GOLDEN-ARM wrote:Could the thousands of looted cars and containers, over the years, by the "Projects Pirates" have had any effect on this? Every train I ran through there had a police escort, and even with that, the trains got parted and/or stopped, and were looted, under the watchful eyes of Conrails Finest........ Even running twice the speed limit, with a minimum set on the trains, the local "cargo commandos" would somehow board the cars, open the plug doors, and start unloading. Containers and trailers faired no better, and the local economy of the housing projects was supported entirely on stolen freight, from Conrail trains. ANY route away from Hoboken would have been a welcomed relief....... :wink:

Wow that is crazy. It must have been bad over there. How did they get on the train, what speed were you going, and did they block the tracks?
  by RDGTRANSMUSEUM
 
what a crazy place,I do not mis that hell hole, from my 9 years working on Conrail.
  by FL9711
 
A few questions. What speed did you go through Hoboken, how did they get on the train if the police were with you, what spot on the line did this happen, and also anyone have any photos.

Thanks
  by Noel Weaver
 
GOLDEN-ARM wrote:Could the thousands of looted cars and containers, over the years, by the "Projects Pirates" have had any effect on this? Every train I ran through there had a police escort, and even with that, the trains got parted and/or stopped, and were looted, under the watchful eyes of Conrails Finest........ Even running twice the speed limit, with a minimum set on the trains, the local "cargo commandos" would somehow board the cars, open the plug doors, and start unloading. Containers and trailers faired no better, and the local economy of the housing projects was supported entirely on stolen freight, from Conrail trains. ANY route away from Hoboken would have been a welcomed relief....... :wink:
I remember this pit very well. Penn Central and Conrail did not turn trains loose at Waldo or Weehawken until the train
dispatcher was assured that the police officers were already on the scene. The natives knew every trick to stop a train
somewhere in that area and if they did succeed, it was time for "Christmas shopping" whether it be in December or July.
I rode the light rail line through that area last year and in looking around the Hoboken Projects, I had to think that maybe
even today there were things laying in that area that came off the freight trains. These people knew how to stop a train
and most of the time there was little that we could do to prevent it.
The only benefit from this area was the railroad police department, I think they would have laid off a good number of the
police officers if it wasn't for this piece of railroad and for a long time, all of the trains had to use this trackage.
Noel Weaver
  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
The speed through the projects would have been 25 mph, but the elevated portion of the Docks, from Waldo (or was it Nave?)to the Communipaw bridge (Johnston Ave.) was 10 mph. From Johnston Ave to Upper Bay was 30 mph. When dragging the train north, you would roll at 10 (although, it was really 15-20) with a minimum, to keep them stretched until the hind-end cleared. The cops would come on the radio, telling you to "go faster, they're coming". Some guys were dumb enough to say stuff like "I'm already going 20, I can't go any faster". Of course, they got popped, for speeding. The unwritten rule, was "it doesn't matter how fast you go, as long as you don't derail, rip them apart or get hit". These guys would roll tires off the hill, stack them in the gauge, run beside you and pull a pin, or even turn the air. Some guys were able to get onto plug doors, some just played decoy for the cops. It was definately an organized system, of stopping and robbing trains. If the score was big, you would see a line of people, passing items across the land, to the projects, like you would see people tossing sandbags to reinforce a levee!! All of this under the watchful eyes of the cops. They could do this with the cops watching, because no cop in his right mind was going to try to stop dozens of potentially armed jackers, by himself. There would be 2,3 or even 4 cop cars/trucks waiting for the trains. They would deploy, every 15-20 cars, from the engine, and drive at train speed, following it through the war zone. Guys would literally stand beside the ROW, wait for the cop to drive by, then jump onto the train. They mostly were there to provide armed escort to the unfortunate conductor, who had to go back, and put his train back together, if they got hit. This might take hours, as every joint made resulted in another pin pulled, when the slack came back in. Running the gauntlet was definately an interesting way to start your trip to Selkirk. Or a terrible way to end your trip back to Oak Island......... :P

BTW, the first link provided looks like a different group, that was hitting trains around the Terminal, apart from and seperate of the Projects Pirates. I remember a TV train getting looted on the fly, while heading north through CP-7/CP-10. There were guys throwing boxes off the train, on the east side, and later, there was found to be several cases of Beretta's in the loot found on the ROW. The other 2 links are the same, and they show the train a couple of miles north of the projects, running track speed as they head into the Weehawkin Tunnel at CP-1, after clearing the Docks. That cop wouldn't be standing and waving at the train, in the projects........ :P
  by FL9711
 
WOW. Did any of the train crews ever get hert or killed? Around what streets did this happen the most. I went to school in Jersey City for 4 years and drove by the National Docks Line almost every week, and never thought of that. How did all this come to an end? Also are there any books or websites more about this. Hats off to anyone who had to drive through there.
  by Noel Weaver
 
FL9711 wrote:WOW. Did any of the train crews ever get hert or killed? Around what streets did this happen the most. I went to school in Jersey City for 4 years and drove by the National Docks Line almost every week, and never thought of that. How did all this come to an end? Also are there any books or websites more about this. Hats off to anyone who had to drive through there.
As track conditions improved and trains were able to travel a little bit faster, this help but the situation never really got
better until after the trains were completely rerouted off this line and on to the Northern upto North Bergen.
Just about anything that could happen has happened at one time or another in Hoboken by the projects.
I could talk some more about this but I think it is better that I do not.
Noel Weaver