Paint schemes for Red Arrow trolleys

After the SEPTA takeover of Red Arrow, (and before they settled on the "Gulf Oil" scheme of orange, blue, and white), the lower half of the trolleys were painted gold.

Around the same time, I'm sure I remember seeing some of the 80-series cars with their lower halves painted silver. Walt (or any others), can you confirm this? (I haven't seen any pictures with this paint scheme.)

I don't recall seeing a silver paint scheme, but remember, I haven't lived in the Philly area since 1967, though during that period I was in Philly rather frequently. I know that SEPTA tried a number of different paint schemes, including the gold scheme before settling on the "gulf oil" scheme ( and later the current red white and blue combination). Some ex PTC PCC cars had a brown lower half rather than the gold. None of those schemes became universal, including the Gulf Oil scheme, and a number of ex Red Arrow cars retained the red and cream almost up to the day they were withdrawn from service.

One note-- the original colors of the first 20 PCC cars acquired by the PRT in 1938 were blue and silver.

Walt,

I didn't know you've been out of the area since 1967.

This would have been in the 1970s (maybe mid-to-late 1970s, because before they went to gold, they just repainted in cream & maroon, removed the "Philadelphia Suburban Trans'n Company" from the letterboards, and applied the SEPTA logo (with tail) where the Red Arrow logo was.)

If I recall correctly, the silver color wasn't as prevalent as the gold, and I only remember it on the 80-series cars.

Oh well, one day I'll find a picture to confirm my flashback.

I graduated from the then West Chester State College in 1967 and moved to DC. Your recollection of the silver scheme may be accurate, but obviously fairly rare. By the 1970's, the 80 series cars were used primarily during weekday peak periods, and my trips back to the area occurred on weekends, so I rarely saw the 80 series in service after '67. Ultimately, of course, SEPTA went with the Red White and Blue colors(with some PCC cars substituting gray for the white) but I don't think any of the former Red Arrow cars were ever painted that way, though some Bullet Cars were.

I will add my two cents to this discussion. At the main library in Philadelphia there used to be a great picture book named Twenty Colorful Years which showcased all SEPTAs transit liveries. I don't remember if it included pics of the post private Bluebirds and MP54s.
Anyway, hers the lowdown on what I remember from riding the system and what was in the book.

When septa first took over the city division, no new paint jobs were applied. Just removed the PTC wings and slapped on SEPTA in plain letters. The SEPTA symbol was not developed until after the Red Arrow accqusition. If you notice the SEPTA symbol "S" is actually two arrows intertwined. Closely resembling the arrows used in Red Arrows emblem. Before repaints, SEPTA applied it's new symbol to all vehicles. In the book you see alot of red arrow trolleys still in thier faded red and cream with SEPTA's new emblem. This is also true in the city, lots of pics of trolleys with the green and cream plus purple belt rails with the emblem.

Septa's first repaints were in thier original colors. This is why on the Red Arrow and P&W you saw cars in the Red Arrow scheme well into the eighties. The only difference is the "red" SEPTA used was actually a very deep Maroon. Also the "cream" SEPTA used was not very creamy, it was more of a dull bone white. Original repaints were done on the city side also, however the purple belt rail was eliminated. SEPTA soon decided that a new image had to be made to sperate dit from PTC and Red Arrow. This is where the experimentation begins. The first color scheme tried was the Gold livery. This livery actually is my favorite. The few cars that were re-painted in earlier in red were not painted in this gold. The main body of the car was painted in gold foil paint. On the belt rail was applied the deep marroon. The window area was the same dull white. And the roofs were silver foil. The only differences were the 80s got silver roofs, while the St. Louis' and the Brilliners got Black roofs. None of the P&W cars did however. The city divsion painted 2 cars in this scheme, however the belt rail was red, not maroon and one of the cars 2176? also received experimental air conditioning.

Septa thought it had found it's new identity, until the cars started to get dirty. Also during this trail time for the gold livery, more city cars were painted in the green scheme. Also, one car on the P&W and one car on the city side were painted in an experimental tan scheme. The gold was liked better, so the gold won. The P&W car was reapinted, the city car kept the tan livery until retirement. Also, Septa had two experimental schemes on the city side. One was Yellow, marroon belt and white roof. The other was Bel-Air blue, and a white roof. Both of these cars stayed in these schemes until retirement.

With the failure of the gold scheme, a new scheme had to be implemented. This was the famous Gulf Oil. It was used in different combos on all 3 systems. On Red Arrow, the 80 series received silver roofs, while the St. Louis' and the Brilliners' received blue roofs. On P&W there were some variations. All had silver roofs, but some had purple belts, the others blue belts. On the city side, there were also some different variations... Most notably the doors. In my opinion, the Gulf oil looked best on the Air-electrics, especially the rear view. So up until 1980-81 when the new LRV started to arrive the whole SEPTA system was a non-standarized clorful array of pre-SEPTA, gold and Gulf oil. The introduction of RED-White and Blue on the LRVs made it to some of the PCCs although Gulf oil was still seen well into the eighties on the city side. P&W also had a variation of Red-White and Blue, but again Red and Cream and Gulf oil survived until retirement.

Hope that helps.

Trackseventeen wrote: Also, Septa had two experimental schemes on the city side. One was Yellow, marroon belt and white roof. The other was Bel-Air blue, and a white roof. Both of these cars stayed in these schemes until retirement.

Good article but you have one little thing wrong. The banana car (2168) was Gulf Oil'ed and lasted well into the 2000s wearing red white and blue and then Chestnut Hill Trolley colors and is now enjoying retirement in Baltimore where it's being repainted back to gulf oil.

TrackSeventeen,

Thanks for the tip about that book. I purchased one on Amazon.com the day after your post.

ekt8750 wrote:

Trackseventeen wrote: Also, Septa had two experimental schemes on the city side. One was Yellow, marroon belt and white roof. The other was Bel-Air blue, and a white roof. Both of these cars stayed in these schemes until retirement.

Good article but you have one little thing wrong. The banana car (2168) was Gulf Oil'ed and lasted well into the 2000s wearing red white and blue and then Chestnut Hill Trolley colors and is now enjoying retirement in Baltimore where it's being repainted back to gulf oil.

Thanks for clearing that up ekt.... Like I said, that was all stated from memory, so inacuracies are bound to be present. I am just glad to hear the car survives to this day. The yellow livery was actually pretty nice. I rode on it one time as a kid on Rt. 11. ... Red Arrow Fan.... I too remember Silver Red Arrow cars, however not specifically 80s. In addition to the silver, did'nt they have blue accents? And no, I am not cunfusing the commerative paint job applied to a city PCC car back in the mid-seventies. In the mentioned book there are no pictures of any Red Arrow car carrying a silver livery. Again, I was a little kid just driving by the parked cars on West Chester Pike after the eveneing rush. I would say however, that the use of silver paint during this period for roofs surely could have resulted in at least one car getting a full silver paint job. For some reason, as I try hard to remember, I am seeing silver St Louis', oh well... As to the book, there an amusing story behind that. The book has been out of print for close to 12 years now, so the only way I ever saw it was to ask to see it when I would visit the main library. It was not in circulation, so you had to sign it out, and it coulndt be taken out of the transportation room. After seeing it maybe 2 different times, I decided that I was going to make copies of some of the pictures on the color copying machine. The machine was in different room. I did get permission to copy one page by the librarian. The room with the copyers was across the hall. So the book should have been back in less than 2 minutes. Well, I was gonna try to get as much of the book as possible. After about 10 minutes the librarian cam rushing in to the room staright for the copy machine. She grabbed the book from under the cover, without saying a word and walked out. I didn't try and ask for the book again that day. I did go back though, about a year later and the book was supposedly "missing". I too, just purchased a copy from Amazon, thanks for letting me know you did the same.

Trackseventeen wrote:...I too remember Silver Red Arrow cars, however not specifically 80s. In addition to the silver, did'nt they have blue accents? And no, I am not cunfusing the commerative paint job applied to a city PCC car back in the mid-seventies. In the mentioned book there are no pictures of any Red Arrow car carrying a silver livery. Again, I was a little kid just driving by the parked cars on West Chester Pike after the eveneing rush. I would say however, that the use of silver paint during this period for roofs surely could have resulted in at least one car getting a full silver paint job....

I recall that the silver scheme was just like the gold scheme, but substituting silver for gold (in other words, just on the lower half. I think the top half was the same cream color as on the gold cars, with whatever roof, belt-rail, and other trim colors.)

The silver roof on the 80-series was present even on the pre-Septa paint jobs, wasn't it? It was more of a flourescent silver that you would find on a flat asphalt building roof, not the metallic, automobile-tone silver on the lower half of the trolleys, that I referred to earlier.

Red Arrow.... Your probably right about that. The silver and gold both were a metallic foil paint. This is one of the reasons that the gold got so dirty, the paint sort of absorbed the grime, and after time washing it no longer made the car look clean. They probably did not use this silver paint on the car body.... But what is interesting, is I have a video that shows alot of P&W and Red Arrow rolling stock maybe in the 73-74 era. In that video I see gold roofs on the repainted Bullets (red and cream).

best place to see all the liveries from here and around the country is in San Francisco

the Market Street Railway (F Line) is one of the finest working transit museums anywhere

http://www.streetcar.org/mim/streetcars ... index.html

highly recommended

WRONG.

Silver was only used on rooves of Strafford, Bullet, and 80-Series Red Arrow cars. I lved locally till Sept. 1973.

SEPTA never painted a Red Arrow unit Silver.

Did. Not. Happen.

Springfield Tripper wrote:WRONG.

Silver was only used on rooves of Strafford, Bullet, and 80-Series Red Arrow cars. I lved locally till Sept. 1973.

SEPTA never painted a Red Arrow unit Silver.

Did. Not. Happen.

Hmmm.. not TOO confrontational!

Since your "residency credentials" only extend thru 1973, you may not be the expert your tone implies.