Wish List

quadruple track + electrification for the entire railroad

I remember a few years back, individuals who started as clerks oversaw the entire operation. You would think they would be good with money entrusted with such a major operation. Definetely well earned positions in a long period. I also heard accounts other people used to "collect " their freight bills from several unwilling costumers! These were actual transportation (T&E) employees to keep the railroad fluid. That sounds like teamwork and job security!

Sixty-seven percent of the town now receives welfare and doesn't need to commute anywhere.

Mr. Tool - Do you have a reputable source to back up that statement or are you just another loudmouthed bigot?

Sixty-seven percent of the town now receives welfare and doesn't need to commute anywhere.

Mr. Tool - Do you have a reputable source to back up that statement or are you just another loudmouthed bigot?

LI Loco wrote:

Sixty-seven percent of the town now receives welfare and doesn't need to commute anywhere.

Mr. Tool - Do you have a reputable source to back up that statement or are you just another loudmouthed bigot?

Edit: Retracted statement about being a bigot per se.

Well, LI Loco.. before you go off on a tangent, how about you do a search on him and you'll see within the 10 most recent posts he's an internal person. LI Tool is one of the most knowledgable people we have posting on the forum.

LC, you might want to erase this guy's pointless comment(s).

Is this railroad related?

Here you go: Census Data for Far Rockaway, New York 11691: 18,335 working people; 10,719 earning below poverty level, who receive WIC, Section 8 payments or welfare. Think they buy monthly LIRR tickets? I've left out lots more, but you get the economic picture.

Please don't call me names if you disagree with me. I just felt my tax dollars shouldn't be poured into a neighborhood to provide transportation facilities for the unemployed who do not use transportation. Sort of the same feelings as Robert Moses had. Know who he was? Can't I disagree with your "community development" concepts without being personally attacked?.

This isn't the venue for you to make accusations about bigotry.

I happen to like you all and really don't understand why you would be racist and hateful toward me. Especially on Railroad.net. It shouldn't be like that here. What's that about?

Just send me a private message if you want to be racist and mean to me without subjecting railroad fans to it.

Thank you Kush... I appreciate your comment. You are a likely a very intelligent and enlightened guy. Let's meet in Far Rockaway for a drink one day!

Bring your gun. Highest violent crime area of NYC (NYC 101 Pct. FBI Statistics 2003). Oops, there I go, racist again.

Mr. Tool -

Thank you for the reference. I looked up the information you cited and I think your conclusions may be based on faulty readings of the data.

Out of a 2000 population of 56,184, 21,934 were in the workforce. That is 39 percent of the total population and 52.3% of the population 16 or older. There were 14,032 individuals living below the poverty level, 24.9% of the total population.

The census fact sheet does not provide information on number of persons receiving aid in the form of W.I.C. payments, Section 8 housing assistance or "welfare."

So I am curious how you came to the conclusions that

Sixty-seven percent of the town now receives welfare and doesn't need to commute anywhere.

Was it an assumption on your part that all individuals living below the poverty line receive assistance and do not travel to work, i.e. don't have jobs?

The census says the mean travel time for people in the work force living in the 11691 zip code is 46 minutes - almost as long as the LIRR takes to get from Far Rockaway to NYP.

2000 census data also show that 51.8 of Far Rockaway's population is black or African American and 22.9 percent is Latino or Hispanic.

In other words, you used census data for an area with a predominantly minority population where one-fourth of the population lives below the poverty line as the basis for stating that

Sixty-seven percent of the town now receives welfare and doesn't need to commute anywhere.

And in your last post you state

Let's meet in Far Rockaway for a drink one day!

Bring your gun.

And you want me to believe that you are not bigoted?

After you accuse me of being "racist and hateful?" and tell me to express my views on a very public issue, i.e. racism, privately?

Frankly, I don't care whether or not you are biased, but if you are going to publicly make statement like these in public forums - whether they have do to with railroads, communities, sports, politics or whatever - then be prepared to acknowledge your biases.

LongIslandTool wrote:Is this railroad related?

Here you go: Census Data for Far Rockaway, New York 11691: 18,335 working people; 10,719 earning below poverty level, who receive WIC, Section 8 payments or welfare. Think they buy monthly LIRR tickets? I've left out lots more, but you get the economic picture.

Please don't call me names if you disagree with me. I just felt my tax dollars shouldn't be poured into a neighborhood to provide transportation facilities for the unemployed who do not use transportation. Sort of the same feelings as Robert Moses had. Know who he was?

This isn't the venue for you to make accusations about bigotry.

I happen to like you all and really don't understand why you can be racist and hateful toward me. Especially on Railroad.net. It shouldn't be like that here. What's that about?

Just send me a private message if you want to be racist and mean to me without subjecting railroad fans to it.

Thank you Kush... I appreciate your comment. You are a likely a very intelligent and enlightened guy. Let's meet in Far Rockaway for a drink one day!

I should have said that your comments seemed to reflect a very simplistic view of economics and an us-vs-them mentality that is often reflective of bigotry. Welfare has been often used in political discourse to stir up latent racism against blacks among voters. This is due to the perception that the vast majority of welfare recipients are black (the percentage of TANF recipients that are white and those that are black are roughly the same at 33.4% and 35.7% respectively). An example of this is Reagan's exaggerations about welfare abuse with the famous "Welfare Queen" claims.

Additionally the claim that welfare recipients don't work at all is false. In order to qualify for benefits under TANF, single parents have to participate in work activities at least 30 hours per week and two-parent households have to work 35-55 hours a week, depending on circumstances. Failure to do so can result in reductions or termination of benefits. States are required to have 50% of single parent households and 90% of two parent households in work-activities unless they show reductions in case-loads.

Again, exaggerating negative stereotypes (not working at all) about welfare is great when stirring up voters but it does not necessarily reflect reality.

I don't know if you are a bigoted person or not (I usually think its better to assume not) but I will point out that you are using language and ideas that have a very strong appeal to bigots.

I don't see why what LI Loco said was racist.

Putting the racism issue aside I kind of feel that you are saying contradictory things. Places like Far Rockaway are capital poor and not very good candidates for private investment. Companies are not likely to relocate there. Moreover, the poverty makes it difficult for local retailers to survive because of the small incomes of their customers. Without access to jobs, how are people within the community going to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." That's why transportation is important. Transit investments provides better access to jobs which in turn raise the income of residents. This makes businesses viable, attracting investment and improving tax revenue for the city. Additionally, more and better jobs mean less dependence on government assistance. Other social service needs also tend to reduce with rises in income level.

It's not "the government taking my money" and just giving to others. It's an investment that if implemented correctly, can pay itself off in the long term. Remember, its not a zero-sum game.

LI Loco, I think you are being a bit too sensitive as well and perhaps should take some of your own advice - whatever you post around here is subjected to criticism and you must be prepared to take it.

Please elaborate, Mr. Tushy. What am I too sensitive about? People getting away with making misinformed generalizations that are often rooted in racial biases? What does that say about us if we look the other way when people make statements that can be construed as hateful?

You state that Mr. Tool is an "internal person." What does that mean? That he's a LIRR employee? If so, I find it amusing that he objects to wealth transfers given than New York State, i.e. New York taxpayers, are picking up over half the tab for his salary.

Fin, I understand and appreciate your reasoning. I heard lots of that logic when doing graduate work in Political Science. But, as I stated, I have disagreed with it for many years.

Loco, your argument must be going right over my head, because I can't understand any of it. Salary=transfer of wealth? Huh?

As I have contributed much to the MTA's LIRR policy in these areas in the past decades, I have had no problem supporting my views, which are shared by most government transit operators as well providers of Federal funding these days.

I suppose you can put in a resume and get to reshape the LIRR to fit your political and economic views.

But I would suggest you leave the name calling, race baiting and simplistic views of "no funds = racism" and "high crime = black area" behind. It reduces the credibility of your argument, which otherwise is quite understandable and was often instituted throughout the 70's and early 80's.

We've seen what the 70's and 80's did to Far Rockaway.

Now go leave me alone.

What the heck are you guys talking about anymore? Another thing gone pittui. lirr415-Peter

Looks like the left wing Thought Police are hard at work. When you can't reason due to your flawed thinking, just shout down your opponent with the racism card.
Long Island Tool, ignore their drivel, you are a realist.

While I have problems with his characterization of the Far Rockaway population, Mr. Tool raises an interesting point about the community's decline as an LIRR traffic generator. However, the causes of the decline go beyond changing demographics.

The old LIRR route across Jamaica Bay, while prone to service disruptions, was faster than the roundabout route via Valley Stream. When the A train replaced the LIRR service, Far Rockaway commuters had a cheaper travel alternative, even with the old double fare.

Second, the LIRR station on Nameoke Ave. is uninviting and away from the center of traffic. Plus, it has limited parking.

LIRR's abandonment of the Rockaway line, while necessitated by the economic circumstances of 1950, proved shortsighted since it deprived what should be a middle class and upper class community with fast access to New York's business centers. It is an anomoly that oceanfront property so close to Manhattan isn't commanding premium prices (Has anyone shopped for a condo in Long Beach lately?) and the Rockaway Peninsula's status as a remote backwater has much to do with that.