Joint E-L/CNJ Piggyback Service?

There used to be a description on this site (http://www.railroad.net/forums/load/eri ... 544.html?7 - now comes up 404) of the joint piggyback service operated by E-L and CNJ between Elizabeth and Scranton during the period between the CNJ's abandonment of PA ops (1972) and the Conrail takeover (1976). I think it was lost during one of the forum recoveries. I wonder if anyone either has a copy of that original post and replies, or can describe it again? This train apparently used CNJ trackage to High Bridge, then up the High Bridge Branch, to E-L (former Lackawanna) trackage at Lake Hopatcong, then on to Scranton. I'd particularly like to know the frequency of operation, what the typical train length was (# of cars?), what the typical power consist was, and if any pickups or drops (at Kenvil?) were made on the High Bridge Branch? If anyone knows of a printed reference, I'd like to get that information as well. Thanks for any help.

Gwensdad

I watched many TOFC & COFC trains roll behind the University of Scranton between 9/72 & 4/76.

I also walked downtown and saw the home-made circus ramp they were using to load the cars. They had one old TOFC car w/ only one truck. theother end was down on the rails & ramped w/ dirt.

They had an old single axle B-modle MACK tractor that was used to back the trailers onto the cars. which were standard piggy back units w/ the crank up 5th wheel support on each end & fold up ramps for the between spaces...

COFC was mostly 20 footers and a mix of on chassis mounted units and units grounded on the deck...the 20 footer would fit between the lowered 5th wheel support & the trailer on the other end of the car as the PiggyBack trailers were all short compared to Today's 53' units.

Also mixed in were Cat machines like D-6 dozers, w/ out the ropps cab or blade mounted and the controls crated over, sometimes sharing the car w/ a trailer...

The trains that EL and CNJ instituted between Scranton and Elizabethport were the ES-99/SE-98. They ran via CNJ's High Bridge Branch to Chester Jct. where they then switched to EL trackage.

Here's an excerpt from an EL website that answers some of your questions:

Hoboken Train Dispatcher
It was April, 1972 and the Central Railroad of New Jersey had ceased operations in Pennsylvania. In an effort to retain some of its business, a joint run through operation was established between the CNJ and the Erie Lackawanna between Elizabethport NJ and Scranton Pa. The eastbound train was symbol SE98, the westbound train was ES99. When this service began, the train size was respectable, usually over 125 cars. As was typical with the CNJ, they loaded up a single train to avoid operating a second train.

I was working extra in the Hoboken Train Dispatchers Office. I had been regularly covering the Second Trick East End Train Dispatching District on Saturdays and Sundays. The regular Dispatcher was an older man and he disliked the increased work load brought on by recently combining the Morris and Essex Dispatching District with the East End on weekends plus the fact that most of the through freights were now operating via Scranton and this job was like wrestling with a bear for 8 hours. I did not mind it though, I enjoyed the experience and hoped to enhance my dispatching skills covering this position.

When SE98 and ES99 began to operate, this was all we really needed, another freight train on the busy single track New Jersey Cut Off with all the other freights. But, it had to handled so we will give it our best.

The connection with the Morristown Line of the EL and the CNJ High Bridge Branch was a place called Chester Junction, which is about 5 miles east of Port Morris. The connection faced east which meant that ES99 had to pull west towards the old Wharton and Northern Branch of the CNJ, then back out onto the M&E Main Track 2 to go west. SE98 had to do the opposite. Inside the Chester Junction interchange was named Lake Junction by the CNJ. The connection was a tight short curve called the Horn Track, which was to create many a problem for us in the very near future. The EL had already drawn plans to construct a New Connection just west of Chester Junction which was to be remotely controlled by Port Morris Tower to allow straight on moves, but this was not immediately available for the start of these trains.

The first week of operation went fairly well. We did notice that the size of both trains was increasing as the days progressed. When the length of ES99 began to exceed 160 cars, trouble started. One Saturday afternoon, I had just taken over the shift when ES99 called at Chester Junction for permission to back out onto our M&E Line. I called the Operator at Port Morris and set up protection to operate ES99 west on the Eastbound track from Chester Junction to Port Morris. After the necessary protection was afforded, I told the Conductor he had permission to back out and go west. About 10 minutes later, Port Morris called me to advise that ES99 had an emergency brake application while shoving the train out. Soon after, the Conductor called to report there were 10 cars derailed coming into that short curve at Lake Junction. It took about 12 hours to clear this mess up.

The next day, Sunday, I again covered this district. ES99 was running later than the previous day. Another big train. The Conductor calls at Chester Junction, protection is provided, the train is backing out, another emergency brake application, another derailment. This is beginning to be a real pain. I have all these other freights to run and am practically single tracking between Bell Bridge Pa and Dover NJ around this nightmare of an ES99 operation each day. Whether these derailments were caused by train dynamics, track conditions, mechanical failures or train handling, we were having them 3 and sometimes 4 a week. SE98 was not affected as badly as ES99. This was due to making the opposite move of ES99 resulted to exposing the train to different conditions.

The EL was fully aware of the situation and help was on the way. About six months after startup of this service, a new right of way was built at Lake Junction to the west and a connection with No. 2 Track was built with an interlocking called the New Connection, controlled by Port Morris Tower. This new track solved most of our operating problems with this new run through service. To make things even easier, the signal system on Track 2 was made reversable between Port Morris and the New Connection.

A year or so into this operation, the CNJ and EL attempted to attract new intermodal business by operating a second eastbound and westbound train, NE100 and NE99. The first few trains carried a reasonable number of trailers, but soon traffic dropped off. I recall the last eastbound, NE100 had one car with two trailers on it. We set the one car off at Lake Junction for SE98 to pick up and deadheaded the power and caboose back to Scranton.

SE98 and ES99 did not last long after Conrail. I believe it ran about one more week after April 1 1976. As events turned out, this was not the only change on the former EL once Conrail got its teeth into us.

Here is the link to the website, an excellent EL resource:

http://el.railfan.net

There is a lot of great information on this site but scroll down the main page to 'History & Remembrances' then scroll down to George Elwood's website and click on his link. Then scroll down to 'Daily Ops' and click on '#43-Reminices Of An EL Operator'. There are some great stories there.

Enjoy!

The irony of these trains was that when the DL&W first entered New Jersey over the Warren Railroad all there NY harbor traffic was interchanged with the CNJ at Hampton, NJ. After the DL&W acquired the Morris and Essex, the CNJ interchange was all but closed down; it remained in use into the mid 1950's but for very few cars a year.

A few questions

Could they have run the trains from E-Port to Scranton w/o using the High Bridge Branch?

Could they have run from E-Port to Croxton, then up the EL?

Or could they have run from E-Port to P-Burg on the CNJ then either up the EL to Scranton or up the LV to Dupont and onto the D&H to Scranton?

Seemed the High Bridge branch trek was a risky one with big, long freights on bad track.

Comments?

BlockLine_4111 wrote:A few questions

Could they have run the trains from E-Port to Scranton w/o using the High Bridge Branch?

Could they have run from E-Port to Croxton, then up the EL?

Or could they have run from E-Port to P-Burg on the CNJ then either up the EL to Scranton or up the LV to Dupont and onto the D&H to Scranton?

Seemed the High Bridge branch trek was a risky one with big, long freights on bad track.

Comments?

I'm just guessing but...
The CNJ probably wanted to keep the trains on their own track for as long as possible. If you add the millage from E-port to High Bridge and from HB to Wharton, It's probably a lot more then out to Pburg.

Plus, The connection to the EL in Pburg faces the wrong way and there was not room to build a new one there as there was at Chester Jct. Also, There is a very tight overpass on the DLnW line right out of the connection with the CNJ main. The trailers may not have fit under it???

I would have loved to see these trains 160 cars through Lockwood Gorge, through Long Valley, etc. I wonder if they were long enough to have blocked both Rt 10 and 46 at the same time? Imagine that today.

BlockLine_4111 wrote:A few questions

Could they have run the trains from E-Port to Scranton w/o using the High Bridge Branch?

Could they have run from E-Port to Croxton, then up the EL?

Or could they have run from E-Port to P-Burg on the CNJ then either up the EL to Scranton or up the LV to Dupont and onto the D&H to Scranton?

Seemed the High Bridge branch trek was a risky one with big, long freights on bad track.

Comments?

Yes, I believe they did use a different route right before CR and right after CR. From what I read in books and stories, the train did occassionally use the CNJ line from High Bridge to P'burg and then came east over the Washington Secondary to Lake Junction on 1 or maybe 2 occassions... It did not happen that often though.

The High Bridge branch during the mid 1970's was a roller coaster ride with some speed restrictions of only 10 mph. I believe the most a train went along that section of track was only 25mph and derailments were numerous. I would imagine some of the 100 car trains did stretch over Route 46 and Route 10 at the same time... Anyone know if those highways were flagged back then too??

"Seemed the High Bridge branch trek was a risky one with big, long freights on bad track. "

I remember a derail at Crestmoor Station just up the road from my house as a kid. We all walked up there to watch the clean up activity, route 513 was blocked for a long time. I brought my little Kodak "Pocket Instimatic" camera with me and still have some pics of it somewhere.

"I would have loved to see these trains 160 cars through Lockwood Gorge, through Long Valley, etc. "

This brings up another memory of when our school bus would be quite late to the Long Valley Middle school in the morning after being held up at the Rt 24 crossing in the Valley. The kids always loved it. Was a sad day when the trains stopped.

Did the High Bridge branch have signaling back in the day?

What type of rail? 80/100/112 lb. sticks ?