Hell Gate Bridge question

Hell Gate Bridge apparently always had catenary on it. But, until 1933, the track between Penn Station and the NY Connecting RR only had third rail, which was never installed on the bridge. So, where and how did the engine change happen, for Penn Station trains going over Hell Gate Bridge?

There were not as many tru trains at that time, most trains went to GCT.
Those trains that had to be interchanged with Pennsy got the engine switch at Harold.

Engines were changed at SS-2 which is a point on the NY Conn. RR east
of Harold. Third rail existed to that point before the AC was extended into
NYP. The train crew worked in and out of Penn Station but the engine
crews ran east of SS-2 and the trains were operated with PRR engine
crews and DD-1 motors on this stretch.
Note that SS-2 was also known at times as "cabin 2".
When time permits, I will dig out an old timetable and better describe just
what took place in this area.
Noel Weaver

Hell Gate Bridge apparently always had catenary on it.

Not quite sure about that statement. Electrification on the Harlem River Branch dates back to 1911/1912, but original passenger operations over the New York Connecting Railroad to S.S. 2 were with I-2 class Pacifics. S.S. 2, by the way, was in the vicinity of Sunnyside Junction. Westbound steam engines would deadhead backwards back to Oak Point Yard, and thence to Harlem River Yard to be turned on the turntable. Eastbound steam engines would do the reverse. By 1924, the wire was up on the passenger tracks.

Wires on the freight tracks to Fremont and Bay Ridge may have come in later, possibly 1927 or so.

I could be wrong, but...

I've done some research since my original post, and I no longer think catenary was on the bridge from the beginning...but I don't know for sure.

JoeG wrote:I've done some research since my original post, and I no longer think catenary was on the bridge from the beginning...but I don't know for sure.

You are correct. Catenary was installed later. Like what was posted, 1924 for the passenger tracks and 1927 for the freight. The wire came down off the freight tracks in 1969.

The electric service over The Big Bridge had to await the arrival of the EP-2s in 1924.

we could have used electric power yesterday, had 46 cars going over to freshpond w/ one sd-40 and stalled. another yard crew came up w/ a gp-38 and helped shove up to the top. helper service on hellgate! no-one could remember the last time that was done, yes, i got a few pics...

Such was done in New Haven times, but rarely. HG-1 coming out of S.S. 3 usually had enough power to make it up the grade, and westbound freights stopped back at S.S. 4 with their trains to do work in Oak Point. After coming back out of the yard and coupling up, the westbound freight would back the entire train up, bunching up the slack big time, until it was around the curve at Hunt's Point, and out of sight of the signals and tower. The operator, after getting clearance from the dispatcher, would ensure S.S. 3's signals were cleared off, then clear off S.S. 4's signals, then go out onto the tracks with a green flag (or green light at night), walk down the tracks until he could see the head end, then give the engineer a highball with the flag (or light). By the time the train was rumbling past S.S. 4 it was already doing a good clip, and still accellerating for the beginning of the grade at Bungay.

When Penn Central took over, and gave all the signal towers single syllable names, they considered putting a Block Limit Station in the vicinity of Little Hell Gate to allow for the use of the occasional pusher. The Block Limit Station's name would have been - hold on - "Hell."

Circa 1965/66 when the New Haven was running 125-car trains of ballast from Pine Orchard to Fresh Pond for a major LIRR reballasting project, the towers along the way had to report in to the dispatcher that all necessary signals were cleared off and the train would not be stopped or slowed down in any way whatsoever. The EF-4 electrics were powerful, but a twelve thousand gross ton train was still a lot of weight to move.

I well remember Hell Gate Bridge and Oak Point in the late years of the
New Haven Railroad (1960-1968 inclusive). With the Virginian electrics we
seldom needed a push regardless unless one motor quit which did not
happen very often. With diesels, it was a different story and westbound
trains stalled from time to time. When a WB stalled, a yard job out of
Oak Point would close in behind the stalled train and tie on, we did not cut
in the air and we cut off on the fly after the head end got over the big
span and was able to make it on their own. Almost always at least one
job at Oak Point would have a 640 class engine and that job would often
be the one working in One Yard. We had a yard speaker system at the
time but no radios and the YM would call the crew on the speaker and tell
them we were to drop what we were doing and head west.
I won't say that it was never done but during my time there, no train that
I was ever on backed behind the signal at SS-4 (Oak Point) to make a run
for the bridge, often after a drop at Oak Point we would not pick up and so
we had less train to go over the bridge with anyway.
Noel Weaver

great background info noel!
we took 56 back, the grade is less on the queens side. could have brought more, but we were short on time, got our 12 just as we we're tieing the engine down. my engineer for that one is a 'smooth operator', but i helped him w/ the car counts (position of loads/mty's) coming off hellgate down the curve so he could set up dynamic and air. kinda neat running long hood foward.
for cp's these days, we have a rather informal way of defining boundaries under yard limit rules. coming into the yard from the west, we hail the yardie we're at oak tower, coming over the bridge, "top of the world",really just a call out so the car dept is in position and ready. coming back from the market, "ok back at the market switch", and if theres another crew working from the east end of the yard, "hold at cp mickey d's"(lol) re: the mc donalds up top.
iv'e seen pictures of tower 4 when it was still in service, remains of the foundation and the lever bed are still there. the loudspeakers are still up on the poles, and alot of other reminders of the past.
though i was barely born when the new haven went under, i'm proud to work on former nh territory in freight service, even if it's the bronx. it doesn't seem as horrible down here as years past, just alot of bad drivers.
i wish i could get one of those "new haven gone but not forgotten" stickers for my locker, anyone have one floating around?