Fare machines on light rail

Recently I had the chance to ride Hudson-Bergen light rail. The worst part of the experience was the fare machines. They are difficult to use, instructions are not clear even for a transit veteran, don't accept dollar bills every time, etc. I missed a train while fussing with the machine, which gives an option for a combined ticket with PATH and then tells you the function is not yet valid.

Fortunately the trains run every 8 minutes (from Liberty State Park). I feel sorry for anyone using the River Line and watching a train go by while the machine refuses to take their money, because the next train won't show up for 30 minutes.

If light rail must use the proof-of-purchase fare system, why couldn't the fare machines be put on the trains? That way you'd at least be moving while you're trying to pay your fare. Plus there would be less security concerns versus digging your wallet out at an isolated location in the dark. And it would be easier, seems to me, for NJ Transit to fix broken machines if they were all in one place (the caryard at night), versus all over the system.

And can't they put a bill acceptor on these machines that is the quality of those in supermarket self-checkout machines, which I've never seen reject a bill?

The worst problem I have with them is reading the screen. The slightest light falling on the screen blots it out. Sunlight directly behind you, forget it.

DG: Consider that there are many commuter railroads that use POP also. That system is utterly dependent on the ticket vending machines, so indeed, how do you pay your fare in the event of a failure of these machines? With the POP system, you are not even permitted on the platform if you are without a validated ticket in your possession. It is a system that requires a high amount of policing.

The fare machines on HBLRT take way too long. I buy my tickets 10 at a time, and it takes about 2 full minutes for them to print out. I heard that the River Line machines were going to be much quicker, something like 4 seconds per ticket as opposed to 12-15 for HBLRT. Has anyone had any experience with them?

In 1993, the LIRR used balky ticket vending machines made in Germany. The same year, we rode the interurban trolley from Vienna to Baden. Then I bought return tickets from a window in the railroad station, and we boarded a suburban train back to Vienna. At one intermediate station, I looked out the window to see a young father (with his son) struggling with the same cursed machine we had on Long Island! This year, I would rate the LIRR and Metro North machines (also made in Germany) more user-friendly than those on Hudson-Bergen, but pity the first-time user of any of these devices! Joe

The TVM machines work reasonably well, but invariably, a machine won't take cash when that is all you have (or a credit card when you have no cash). As for the speed, I missed a train to NYC yesterday when it took over a minute for me to program in my info and the for it to spit out my ticket. It's absurd that it takes so long.

I don't know any other situation like transit fare machines where a large number of people are required to use automated purchasing to buy a service, and at the same time the automated system is so balky, tempermental and slow. If you come across a nonfunctional bank ATM, food vending machine or pay phone you can find another one. However, a poorly functioning transit fare machine will prevent you from using the service it is selling--not a good incentive to use transit. But I agree, NJ Transit light rail's machines aren't the worst. SEPTA's are. They basically abandoned updating them. You cannot use any of the "new" bills on them (even ones that are three years old at this point, series 2001). Fortunately there are conductors on the trains who can sell you your fare and won't penalize you at places like Philadelphia International Airport because they know how bad the TVMs are.

Then there's New York City's Metrocard machines. They aren't too bad but I read how people purposely clog the bill slots of those machines and then "sell" you entry into the subway system for 2 bucks by swiping unlimited use cards they bought for 7 bucks or so a pop.

A number of River LINE ticket machines malfunctioned on Friday. Expediters on the trains told frustrated passengers to get on the train and not to worry about tickets.

Are tickets bought at Riverline fare machines usable on the Newark City Subway and Hudson Bergen Light rail? Also are light rail tickets usable for one zone rides on NJT buses?

I do hope the light rail machines are faster somehow then the machines the heavy rail uses. I have used the HBLR machines and they seemed to be a few seconds faster than the heavy rail machines, but not that much.

Ive timed it before....1 minute 10 seconds from start to finish when buying a round trip ticket with cash and change from a heavy rail machine. That gives a few seconds to look up the station code and for change to drop. So give or take 5 or so seconds.

I would imagine that the light rail machines are quicker becuase they don't have to embed the magnet stripe like the heavy rail machines do. Ive been told by higher ups thats what takes them longer. I think its just because they SUCK.

...how good the machines in Secaucus Junction are. Though NJT lied to the users of the BCL/Main/etc. (they said that the machines that went in there would be the kind with the "new" printers), there ARE new machines in SJ that can print a ticket in about 1-5 seconds.

ftmprob wrote:Are tickets bought at Riverline fare machines usable on the Newark City Subway and Hudson Bergen Light rail? Also are light rail tickets usable for one zone rides on NJT buses?

Hudson Bergen uses a different fare structure than River Line and the City Subway. The City Subway is considered a bus route for NJT's fare purposes, meaning that Transfers, Continuing Trip (for certain connecting buses, mostly old trolley lines like the 29) and Feeder Fares are all valid. River Line, while not considered a bus line, also accepts and issues Transfers and Feeder Fares as well. Both have a base $1.10 base fare (same as a 1 zone bus ride in both North and South Jersey fare structures). But HBLR has a 1.50 base fare and does not accept Transfers or feeder fares. When it comes to monthly passes, A river Line monthly will work on the NCS and vice versa, but will not work for the HBLR. However a HBLR monthly is good on all systems.

Its a screwed up system. Why they never intregated HBLR into the bus system is beyond me. Why NJT has or hasn't done alot of things in regards to rail/light rail/bus fares is beyond me. You could fill up pages just trying to figure out NJT's fare policy and which tickets are cross-honored on which lines.

HBLRT was not included in the bus system because of the contract with the DBOM operator, 21st Century Rail, who is charged with (as the initials indicate) designing, building, operating and maintaining the particular LRT system under their charge. Same applies with the Southern NJ Light Rail Group LLC. Those respective DBOM outfits also set the fares independently from any other department of NJ Transit.

The reason the Newark City Subway remains under NJT Bus operations is because it was inherited from Public Service along with the bus routes. It was already operated by bus personnel and it would have made no sense and cost too much money to transfer it to NJT Rail (IOW, not fixing what wasn't broken).

The fares are determined by NJT, not the DBOMs.