Question about the new PA 5 cars & the PA 4 cars.

When all of the 340 new PA 5 cars arrive, what will happen to the 94 PA 4 cars. Will they be retired or be shipped to another transit system.

Originally, the PA-4s were to be rebuilt; but recent press releases suggest retirement. Those PA-5s better be flawless out of the box...

nice looking.

I'm sure they'll be nice cars. But the important question is whether or not we'll be able to see out the front. The old cars are a railfan's paradise. As you can see from the picture, it looks like the left side railfan window has been eliminated. And my guess is they will likely have full-width cabs, so maybe we'll be able to see thru, more likely not. And that will really ruin my day. But, we can still hope...............

But the important question is whether or not we'll be able to see out the front

Is it? I think the more important question is whether these cars will work free of bugs when pressed into service. I'd say that PATH engineers can do without someone blocking their egress from the cab, whether looking out the front window or just as a standee.

Irish, I completely agree with you. I was only speaking from the buff's point of view. Obviously the cars need to function as intended and be as trouble free as possible. No argument there!

And speaking as a responsible railfan, I make a point of not obstructing the crew in the performance of their duties. The great thing about the old PATH cars is that you can either stand back from the front, by the first set of doors and look forward all the way thru, or you can sit on the left side of the car, in the front section, turn your head to the left and see out the extra left front window. So I get my view and the engineer's door is not blocked. That's a win-win !

Irish Chieftain wrote:

But the important question is whether or not we'll be able to see out the front

Is it? I think the more important question is whether these cars will work free of bugs when pressed into service. I'd say that PATH engineers can do without someone blocking their egress from the cab, whether looking out the front window or just as a standee.

I disagree. I don't see why a railfan window couldn't have been retained.

It's surprising that they wouldn't have a left side window for the engineer assuming it's a full-width cab. NYC subway cars and LIRR/Metro-North M-7's have the extra window. The engineers probably like the extra visibility. Maybe that space is needed for an electrical cabinet, or maybe it's not a full-width cab. Then too, the final product may be built different than the pictures show it. We'll just have to wait and see....

Irish Chieftain wrote:Originally, the PA-4s were to be rebuilt; but recent press releases suggest retirement. Those PA-5s better be flawless out of the box...

From what I heard, I think they will probably keep the PA-4s around, but they will be converted into workcars...

Not sure why they'd need to replace cars that are only 18 years old (most buses last longer than this!), but hey, it's their money.

ryanov wrote:Not sure why they'd need to replace cars that are only 18 years old (most buses last longer than this!), but hey, it's their money.

I look at it this way, look at most of the subways cars now around the US. They are more modern. As it looks they are going to look like the R143 or 160.

I would just like new cars, the old ones look horrible and make the system look lousy

In comparison, Path cars are immaculate compared to NYC Subway cars
but comparing the two systems is like apples to oranges.

With respect to the view out the front of the train, I'm glad my six year old daughter had the chance to use the "railfan window" over Thanksgiving, not unlike her father when he was six. She stood all the way from 33rd to Pavonia and loved every moment.

Perhaps the end of an era for some people, but the majority won't notice one way or the other.