NYC Subway Pre-Chrystie St connector

I looked at the trackmap detail on nycsubway.org of the pre-Chrystie St connector track arrangement. It showed the south side of the bridge being connected to the (current) J/M/Z lines, and the north side being connected to the (current) N/Q lines. But what about Grand St? Did the tracks just end south of Grand St with no connection to anywhere?

Before this connector, did all 6th Av trains run on the Culver Line? But what used the West End line? I know the B used to run on it, and now the D, but those routes both use(d) the Manhattan Bridge.

I have little knowledge of the Subway in the mid-1900s, so I would like further clarification.

You can probably find a lot of what you're looking for on nycsubway.org, but briefly, prior to 1967, there were no tracks under Christie St. Grand St. station opened with the connector. There also were no 6th Ave express tracks between W 4th and 34th.

There were three services on the 6th Ave line up until 1967:
BB: Rush hours only, local, 168th St Washington Heights to 34th St.
D: All times, 205th St Concourse to Coney Island via Culver line.
F: All times, 179th St Jamaica to Broadway-Lafayette (weekedays, turned at 34th St nights and weekends).

Get Peter Dougherty's book "Tracks of the New York City Subway" ($37.00?).

It will clear up some of your inquiries.

BMT Standard wrote:You can probably find a lot of what you're looking for on nycsubway.org, but briefly, prior to 1967, there were no tracks under Christie St. Grand St. station opened with the connector. There also were no 6th Ave express tracks between W 4th and 34th.

There were three services on the 6th Ave line up until 1967:
BB: Rush hours only, local, 168th St Washington Heights to 34th St.
D: All times, 205th St Concourse to Coney Island via Culver line.
F: All times, 179th St Jamaica to Broadway-Lafayette (weekedays, turned at 34th St nights and weekends).

Hold on. You say the F train turned at Broadway Lafayette. That means they would have to run express on 6th Av, because the trains can only relay at Bway Lafayette on the express track.

But wait! You also said there was no express track between 34th and W 4th. So how could the F trains relay at Bway Lafayette in they could not get to the express track?

UNLESS they relayed at 2nd Av. Except from looking at the 2nd Av page of nycsubway.org I got the impression that 2nd Av did not have the crossover between the inner tracks that it has now.

So how did that work?

Love Train wrote:But wait! You also said there was no express track between 34th and W 4th. So how could the F trains relay at Bway Lafayette in they could not get to the express track?

They entered the "express" (center) track just north of W. 4th St. station.

Also, there were at one time crossovers between the "local" and "express" tracks west of Bway Lafayette, which were used in the early 1950s when the E train terminated there.

Love Train wrote:

BMT Standard wrote:You can probably find a lot of what you're looking for on nycsubway.org, but briefly, prior to 1967, there were no tracks under Christie St. Grand St. station opened with the connector. There also were no 6th Ave express tracks between W 4th and 34th.

There were three services on the 6th Ave line up until 1967:
BB: Rush hours only, local, 168th St Washington Heights to 34th St.
D: All times, 205th St Concourse to Coney Island via Culver line.
F: All times, 179th St Jamaica to Broadway-Lafayette (weekedays, turned at 34th St nights and weekends).

Hold on. You say the F train turned at Broadway Lafayette. That means they would have to run express on 6th Av, because the trains can only relay at Bway Lafayette on the express track.

But wait! You also said there was no express track between 34th and W 4th. So how could the F trains relay at Bway Lafayette in they could not get to the express track?

UNLESS they relayed at 2nd Av. Except from looking at the 2nd Av page of nycsubway.org I got the impression that 2nd Av did not have the crossover between the inner tracks that it has now.

So how did that work?

The express tracks where physically there but they just ended at Second Ave(then they were disconnected from second ave station and connected to a new tunnel when the connection was built) so the F would either turn at 34th st or second Ave and the D would go to Coney Island, and I assume the crossover was always there because there were plans to link those express tracks that branch out of the local tracks at 2nd ave to the a new S.4st tunnel, but that never happend.Im assuming the F trains that turned at Bway Lafyette crossed over to the express tracks North of W4St and used the single X-over and then im guessing the exp tracks were bi-directional between W.4st and B,way Lafyette as they were when the Grand street shuttle ran,or trains just terminated on the southbound express track, relayed onto the northbound express track and crossed over to the local track North of W4st, SOLID regular scheduled express service didn't begin until 1967-68 but im sure that bits and pieces of the express tracks were there ,otherwise trains would had been forced to relay at Delancey St ,Hudson Terminal or continue all the way to Bklyn(which some of them did)