One railroad, two lines light years apart.

I normally ride the Milwaukee Road west line from/to Wood Dale and have for almost 30 years. So I have a soft spot for it. Yesterday (03/06), however, I rode from/to Deerfield on the Milwaukee Road north line and man, what a difference.

I rode an all-stop train in in the morning. Although this is a two track main, every station has crossing protection for the pedestrians and a fence between the tracks.

On the way home, I rode the 4:40pm which expresses from Western Ave. to Lake-Cook Rd. This baby flys along at track speed which is as high as 79 MPH. Zips through stations, intersections, etc without slowing. There is a complex grade crossing between Forest Glen and Edgebrook consisting of Central, Lehigh and Toughy Avenues. This bad boy doesn't even blink an eye. Stay out of my way, I'm coming through. And from what I could see, people along the tracks and in the stations understood this. They waited for the trains to pass.

Thats how the west line used to be, the difference being that the top speed is 70 MPH. Not any more. Now we have to sit outside of stations when they are occupied by another train and limp across Grand Ave. in Elmwood Park. It as if the trains are apologetic about being there. And people have no inhibitions about walking around the trains stopped in the stations, crossing where there are no cross walks, stopping their cars on the tracks.

I guess the people along the north line have a stronger will to live, or perhaps they have more common sense.

Add in Amtrak's presence in the Milwaukee North corridor, and it's obvious that those high speed trains have had a definite impact on the behaviour of the motorists, commuters, and pedestrians in the area, I've noticed that there's a much healthier respect for the trains and the safety devices. Indeed, I can't remember the last time I heard about a grade crossing incident along that route, it's been awhile. Although there are no easy solutions to bring the Milwaukee West line up to the same standards, if everyone in the Elmwood Park/Grand Ave corridor knew that all trains going through the area would be highballing through the crossings at 60+mph, there might not be as many accidents, and people wouldn't be as inclined to take stupid chances.

And speaking of fast non-stop rides from downtown to suburbia, UP-W train 47, the 5:04 from OTC to Elburn is pretty fast as well. The "Wheaton Rocket" makes its first scheduled stop in Wheaton at 5:38, but it isn't unusual for this train to arrive up to five minutes early. It trundles along a bit from downtown to the M19-A locomotive facility, and except for a 60mph speed limit along the two track segment between River Forest and Elmhurst, it's a 70mph ride the rest of the way. At that time of day, I can make it home in less than 40 minutes from downtown... you can't beat that.

And dont forfet about the CP freight trains that run north of A-20 and also the WSOR runs two trains late at night. I have noticed to that people seem to respect the crossind devices mor on the north line to. But a car did get hit by a westbound Hiawatha train in Northbrook last December I saw it get hit and called 911.

The towns along the C&M sub from Rondout and points south also have whistle bans/quiet zones in place. It is noticible in high speed territory that less risks are taken.

Why is it that some lines have a max authorized speed of 79 mph and some lines have a max of 70 mph?

doepack wrote:if everyone in the Elmwood Park/Grand Ave corridor knew that all trains going through the area would be highballing through the crossings at 60+mph, there might not be as many accidents,

Prior to the Thanksgiving Eve 2005 crossing accident, we did highball through there at 60+ MPH. The solution to this was to slow the trains down rather than fix the mind set of the motorists. Also, we never used to have to wait outside stations until other trains cleared until a bunch of idiots kept crossing over illegally and got themselves hit.

I suggested to Metra that they put up fences between the tracks and/or have officers patrol and give out warnings and tickets. They didn't really have an answer for the police officer suggestion. They said they don't put up fences for two track main lines as the west line is from Bensenville on out. I guess they forgot about the north line.

MetraBNSF wrote:Why is it that some lines have a max authorized speed of 79 mph and some lines have a max of 70 mph?

The way I understand it is cab signal territory can be up to 79MPH.

The "faster trains = respectful motorists" theory is a good one, but there might be more to it. The reason I say that is because the RI suburban branc runs at pretty slow speeds, over a multitude of grade crossings, and over some trackage that's almost street-running, and I can't think of the last time a motorist was hit by a train. Using that as an example, I think people who live closer to the tracks are going to be much more careful than the people who drive over them twice a day on a busy street (Like the Elmwood Park crossing). No solution is very clear, but if they could study traffic patterns and figure out where the majority of those uncareful drivers reside, a general Operation Lifesaver brochure mailing, along with a sheet explaining what and what not to do at a rail crossing (since some be just don't know) might have some effect. Fines and more signage at grade crossings are good ideas, but the former is only good if you can enforce it (having a cop sitting by the crossing at all times, waiting to give tickets) and the latter are easily ignored by the uninformed and unaware motorists who they're trying to reach out to.

Only 79 mph? Why doesn't Metra keep its trackage up to 90mph standards? I'm sure at least most of the lines are straight enough for 90mph MAS.

There was talk of upgrading the South Shore line to cab signal and 90mph running - this line is somewhat funded by Chicago RTA. I think the money might be better spent in other areas, such as Michigan City street running or South Bend terminal trackage, where speeds barely top 25 mph for more than ten minutes - on a 91 mile LOA route, these are bigger issues than increasing the high-speed segment from 79 to 90.

F40CFan wrote:I suggested to Metra that they put up fences between the tracks and/or have officers patrol and give out warnings and tickets. They didn't really have an answer for the police officer suggestion. They said they don't put up fences for two track main lines as the west line is from Bensenville on out. I guess they forgot about the north line.

Which means the person you talked to obviously didn't know what he/she was talking about, so you really didn't a straight answer for your fence suggestion either. Many suggestions won't have the desired balance between cost and feasibility, but we still have a right to know the real reasons as to why they can't be implemented, instead of blatant misinformation. If they're going to do that, they may as well not answer the phone, and/or delete the email without replying.

I think that the general gist of these comparisons is probably accurate, although not all is perfect along the Milwaukee North. I live and work within a couple blocks of the tracks, crossing them several times a day, and I definitely see some drivers and pedestrians who give imperfect respect to the gates and lights, primarily by crossing as soon as a train clears rather than waiting for the lights to stop. There are vehicle or pedestrian incidents from time to time; I can think of two pedestrians deaths plus a suicide within half a mile of my home in the six years I've lived here. But the number is pretty small given that weekday traffic is 60 Milwaukee North trains (plus a NCS express), 16 Amtrak runs, and many freights.

I think that the engineers deserve a lot of the credit for pedestrian safety, perhaps assisted by the fences. I've never really understood the "hold-out rule" on other lines. It seems much safer for the stopped train to remain in the station while the opposing train enters the station since the stopped train prevents pedestrians from crossing the tracks. But maybe without the fences this would not work on other lines. On the Milwaukee North, engineers (Metra, Amtrak, and freight) specifically orchestrate their arrivals in stations so that the first-arriving train holds in the station until the other train has occupied the crossing, then the first train is given clearance to proceed.

F40CFan wrote:Although this is a two track main, every station has crossing protection for the pedestrians and a fence between the tracks.

The at-grade pedestrian crossings within stations generally have lights and bells, but I can't think of any with crossing gates other than those that are part of a street crossing. I don't think that any of the stations within the Chicago city limits have lights or bells, although Western has completely grade-separated pedestrian crossings and those at Healy, Grayland, and Mayfair have under-track sidewalks in addition to at-grade pedestrian crossings.

F40CFan wrote:On the way home, I rode the 4:40pm which expresses from Western Ave. to Lake-Cook Rd.

Yeah, I love that run--23 miles in 32 minutes. And often you can tell that they're holding back from North Glenview west to Lake-Cook so that they don't arrive early.

M&Eman wrote:Only 79 mph? Why doesn't Metra keep its trackage up to 90mph standards? I'm sure at least most of the lines are straight enough for 90mph MAS.

I don't think that 90 mph would serve much purpose for diesel-hauled trains serving stations spaced mostly one to three miles apart. They can't accelerate fast enough to substantially decrease running time even with a higher speed limit. The expresses could go faster, but with only two tracks none of the expresses or Hiawathas is scheduled to run around the train ahead of it, so they really couldn't run much faster than they already do.

F40CFan wrote:The way I understand it is cab signal territory can be up to 79MPH.

I think that what's required to go 80 mph and faster is some sort of automatic train stop system, such as the former Santa Fe ATS on parts of the Southwest Chief and Surfliner routes. For speeds "less than 80 mph," no positive train control is required (hence the 79 mph limit in its absence). I don't think cab signals themselves affect the speed limit unless coupled with some form of positive train control. Thus 79 mph is allowed with either lineside CTC signals or in-cab signals as long as the track is adequate.

meh wrote:I don't think cab signals themselves affect the speed limit unless coupled with some form of positive train control. Thus 79 mph is allowed with either lineside CTC signals or in-cab signals as long as the track is adequate.

I can't say for certain, but I was told that the reason the MILW-W line speed limit was 70 versus 79 for MILW-N was that the north line has cab signals and the west line does not. Maybe Bones could shed some light on this.

Niether the C&M, or the D&I (Elgin) Subs have cab signals. The D&I Used to be 79 mph up until about 1972. The only reason to hold the max speed to 70 right now would be crossing gate timing.

By the way, the old GM&O (Heritage Corridor) is 79mph, no cab signals.
The old Wabsh (Southwest Service) were I now work was upped to 79mph within the last year. Also no cab signals.

In order to run 80-89mph you need cab signals, or ATS.
To run 90+ mph you need ATC.

bones wrote:Niether the C&M, or the D&I (Elgin) Subs have cab signals. The D&I Used to be 79 mph up until about 1972. The only reason to hold the max speed to 70 right now would be crossing gate timing.

By the way, the old GM&O (Heritage Corridor) is 79mph, no cab signals.
The old Wabsh (Southwest Service) were I now work was upped to 79mph within the last year. Also no cab signals.

In order to run 80-89mph you need cab signals, or ATS.
To run 90+ mph you need ATC.

Thank you, Bones, for clearing that up.

Nevermind.