Car accident on Monday turns into a railroad accident

Third, Thinking that they are protected the first responders will not bother to post their flags or maybe their lookouts. (It is their responsibility until either they are no longer fouling or are relieved by railroad employees on the scene. Telephone conversations with a dispatcher just do not cut it.)

So because something isn't 100% effective it shouldn't be done?? Shunting the track circut is probably one of the fastest ways to stop trains in both directions. Flagging should definitly be done, but if you arrive on the scene of an accident are you going to run down the tracks instead of trying to provide aid to the victim?

Shunting should be one part of the fouled track emergency checklist. If the dispatcher cannot be reached it is the next best way to get trains stopped. To properly flag you need to get two people each a mile down the tracks. To properly shunt you need a pair of jumper cables. Any first responder, or even a common citizen, can probably shunt the tracks while calling the dispatcher or police.

Whenever there an incident with a railroad here, more time is spent for Police/Fire/EMS to find out which railroad is involved than with the problem itself; And there are only 2 to choose from most of the time!

I totally agree with Trainlawyer, nobody but railroad workers should be putting any device to shunt or override a signal system.

The Government should put more time and effort into educationing municipalities as to railroad safety/crossing safety instead of trying to get rid of Amtrak.

Would be catostrophic not only taking out a wrecked car, but emergency workers and bystanders when they are told a "shunting" device is attached to slow/stop trains and they put it on in dark territory. Hmmmm![/i]

I just saw a video on RealTV where some police were almost creamed because they called the dispatcher and the dispatcher was not able to contact the oncomming train. The police figured the trains would be stopped, but 5-10 minutes later BOOM, the stuck car on the tracks was demolished.

If the police has known to shunt the circut in addition to calling the dispatcher they probably could have stopped the train.

Off the top of my head:
1. Dark Track
2. Train is already in block
3. Signal System malfunction
4. Bad contact with rail [Sidenote: where on 150lb welded rail are you going to attach the clips?]
5. What indication do you have that it worked?
6. Do you have enough cables for the adjacent tracks?
7. All of the fancy new technology that does not rely on track circuitry.
8. Oops, the cables are in the other car.
9. I have seen four and a half foot cables in the discount store.

What part of "an additional part of the checklist" don't you understand? The whole point of the track circut is to alert trains to an obstruction. Using jumper cables to shunt is using the signal system to do what it is designed to do. It is fast and simple and dosen't hurt anything.

I don't have a cell phone. A lot of people don't. If we get stuck on the tracks what should we do? Guess which direction the train is comming and run that way to stop the train?? There appear to have been at least two situations where the dispatcher has been ineffective. Shunting isn't a cure all, but it CAN help and takes a minimal amount of effort to put in place in conjunction with other actions such as flagging.

Maybe the reason for the "not appropriate" comment was that they had no idea that an Amtrak train was due next. They probably said...ok these are BNSF tracks, we need to call them. I'm sure if this happened on Amtrak owned tracks, Amtrak would be called regardless of if the next train due at the crossing was a commuter or freight train run by another railroad.

I heard about this incident the other day. I believe Both Railroads should have been notified about the accident. That usually happens - but then again - the police / fire officer on scene should have known that 2 railroads operate at that grade crossing..

I know here in NYC where I'm a Fire Dispatcher for the FDNY in Brooklyn, Whenever we have a incident on the railroad - we always notify the main railroad dispatcher... Being that i'm a railfan - I know who to properly notify if it's a problem with the passanger carrier or freight carrier.

Matt

EMDCRSD60I

There's not so much a policy solution here as a multiple layer, common sense issue:

1) On scene first responding officer has responsibility to call his supervisor or 911/dispatch center.

2) Dispatch center has responsibility to call most likely railroad. There, because it's a public safety emergency services agency, the police should be cross-connected to railroad company police without delay.

3) Railroad police, two layers removed, have the ability to sort out "my tracks, or someone elses?" question, and again, talk police-police to the RIGHT railroad.

4) Railroad police should also have authority, in the interests of public safety, to have RR Dispatchers set mandatory red blocks in both directions around the accident scene.

We cannot count on railfans happening to be on station as police or public safety dispatch center staff. We, the general public, need a system that works.

John Perkowski

Mr. Perkowski's post is right on.

I haven't found any further information regarding this accident. I only found the one article.

I have an idea of what may have happened. There was an accident as we all know. If there is a deceased body, the coroner must pronounce him dead. I'm thinking the reason that the car wasn't moved is because there has to be an investigation of what actually happened. The reason they didn't move it is maybe because they were waiting for an investigator. That's just a thought.

I just want to point out that, although it is NOT a cure-all, as mentioned above, attempting to shunt the circuit can't hurt. I am NOT saying to NOT do anything else in an effort to warn approaching trains, but come on, as long as you don't get crushed in the process, WHY NOT? I just want to say that you should be VERY carefull doing this in third rail territory!

The only potential risk I can think of is the possibility that if the only place you can attach te cables is over the top of the rails, I guess it COULD cause the train to derail. BUT, at least with my jumper cables (for my car battery), the claws are hollow, and I'm sure they would easily be crushed by the train. Given the extremely low probability of a derailment from the cables, and given what is GUARANTEED to happen either way if the train doesn't stop, I would consider this an acceptable risk.

EMD CR SD60I wrote:I believe Both Railroads should have been notified about the accident. the police / fire officer on scene should have known that 2 railroads operate at that grade crossing

Looking at maps of the Romeoville area, it seems as if

that grade crossing

is about half a mile wide, with the Illinois & Michigan Canal and possibly the municipal boundary between the tracks. The BNSF is closer to town, between the Chicago Sanitary & Ship Canal and the I&M Canal. The CNIC is more to the East, next to New Ave. The article mentions that the local police left because the site turned out to be outside of town. Did the local police report to the railroad that runs through their town, not knowing that that there could be other railroads controlling tracks in the countryside?

It seems the Sun-Times article has been put date a since the original report. I thought the drive was killed by the Amtrak train but now realize he was already dead. The accident did not happen at a crossing but on New Ave which parallels the CN tracks. While passing the driver lost control and went off the road with the car ending up on the tracks. The CN and BNSF tracks are probably about a half mile apart here with some industires between them in places like a power plant and oil refinery. It seems that Romeville origianlly thought the accident was on the BNSF tracks but then realized it was outside their juristiction and left it at that. The best I can figure the accident happened in unincorperated area which be the county Sherrif for law inforcement. It would seem that whose ever fire district this was in (Romeoville or Lockport?) should have made sure the proper railroad was notified.

Terry

I have to say that I agree with the article as far as notifying Amtrak. The emergency crews responding (or their dispatching center) should have notified the appropriate railroad, in this case the CN. Once the rescue crews are known to be in the area the CN's dispatcher would advise any trains in the area and if possible hold any other moves out of the area until clear. At this time the CN's dispatcher or someone else in their dispatching center could noitfy the appropriate Amtrak officials. I acknowledge that this situation is rare and unfortunate, but it is not the railroads' (neither BNSF, Amtrak nor CN) fault that this happened the way it did. It seems that it comes down to the local officials not knowing who to call, which should be part of their training as first responders. Good thing they didn't get a report of a mile-long BNSF train derailed, on fire with 15 cars of hazardous, because they might have gone to the CN's tracks and when they saw no wreck, may have gone home thinking it was a false alarm.

As for who to call, anytime you have a train operating over a foreign road, the host railroad is in charge and the host railroad's rules and operating procedures are what the train is governed by. For example, if I am on a CSXT freight operating over an Amtrak owned/dispatched line and there are firefighters and police on the tracks ahead and we will be held until they are clear (possibly a 1/2 hour or so) the Amtrak dispatcher will advise my engineer and I, but not neccessarily notify any CSXT officials in the Regional offices in Albany,NY, and they won't even notify my local train-master because it's not CSXT's problem that there is a situation on Amtrak's line, other than it is causing a CSXT train to be delayed.