Salt Lake City to Las Vegas

RWERN wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:34 am This detour only adds about 15 miles to the journey.
Against the ~800 miles LAX-SLC on the previous route, it's only ~2% longer.
Barring slow speeds, it seems like a good trade-off to travel through populated areas versus wilderness.

15 extra miles at 60 mph is 15 minutes lost. 15 extra miles at 30 mph is 30 minutes lost. Freight railroads companies, especially the UP, do not maintain their non-mainline tracks to the same condition as their mainline tracks. Does anyone know what the maximum train speed is for this sub? Does anyone know how much it will cost to upgrade the condition of these tracks for Amtrak desired passenger speeds? Does anyone know who is willing to pay for it? I guarantee you that neither Amtrak nor the FRA will assume the full costs.

I ask because Utah did step up and bought half the UP right of way for UTA Frontrunner commuter service between Provo and Odgen with access to reach Brigham City. But that is not a daily train service. UTA attracts 12,300 daily passengers at a frequency and ridership than a daily Amtrak service would ever provide. While Utah has an agreement with the UP to run trains from Brigham City in the north to Nephi in the south, a total around 135 miles. But they only run to Provo today, a total around 83 miles. Future expansion plans to the south are on hold mainly because of a lack of riders.

If Utah has their choice, they would rather have FRA grants to extend Frontrunner services than reincarnate the Desert Wind. So I think they would be unwilling to fund a reincarnated Desert Wind.

The point is that they don’t need to go any farther than Vegas. Just make sure to cover Provo and a truncated “Desert Wind” segment of the Zephyr would do well.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:11 am The point is that they don’t need to go any farther than Vegas. Just make sure to cover Provo and a truncated “Desert Wind” segment of the Zephyr would do well.

Who do you expect to pay for it?

Utah and Nevada.

While Utah actively supports mass transit through their Front Range (Provo-Brigham), not much to suggest that they will support any intercity (inter regional) routes - especially if operated by Amtrak.

Nevada? beyond the municipal bus systems surrounding the Reno and Vegas regions, what?

In response to “who will pay for it “.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:46 am I swear there was already a topic on this, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, looks like a grant has been requested for a study: https://kutv.com/news/local/agencies-ex ... sportation

Could this end up being a section of the Zephyr?

Passenger train from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City under consideration

LAS VEGAS (KSNV) — State agencies are looking into a potential passenger train connecting Las Vegas and Salt Lake City.

The Utah Department of Transportation says it applied for a $500,000 grant to study passenger rail with the two cities serving as endpoints.

Travel time is pegged at seven to nine-and-a-half hours each way, based on Amtrak's Desert Wind service, which connected Las Vegas and Salt Lake City until it was discontinued in 1997.
...

My question…

Who will pay UP to rehabilitate that segment for passenger operation?

A Chicago-SLC-LV section of the CZ would be a night train with really lousy eastbound times. It would have to arrive back at SLC by around 2:30 am to give time to tie onto the CZ when it's on time. On that awful schedule, missing Nephi is no big deal. And Provo would be included because that's where the CZ goes after SLC.

But Utah would probably want either a day train, or an independent night train with reasonable times at SLC. Could start at Provo and run via SLC, but with reasonable SLC times just selling through tickets on Frontrunner would be trivial for Amtrak/state, and not much slower for Provo passengers.

How big is the Provo to Vegas market? The two towns are ... very different.

I once rode UP #6, the never named secondary train, LV to SLC during Oct '68. The scenery was mostly the sandstone out of which God has carved some very inspiring vistas.

"Once upon a time" it carried Sleepers and some kind of Diner, as well as "head end" cars stretching out of sight. The schedule was padded in order to allow station time ( "dwell" in Amtrakese) for "the work". But by the time I got to it, it was simply two Coaches.