LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

MACTRAXX wrote: With the mention of Bethpage and Farmingdale there would likely have to be aerial structures with new
station facilities constructed to eliminate the crossings in both towns...that would most likely encounter
oposition from the disruptions needed during the construction phase - and from NIMBYs and BANANAs.
(BANANA stands for "Build Absolutely Nothing Anyplace Near Anyone")...

About Farmingdale, if eliminating the village grade crossings entails elevating the structure, where do you place the temporary tracks while the elevation is taking place ?

BM - Good question...A way that I noticed that an elimination project in a congested place such as Farmingdale
could be constructed is to build the new elevated structure DIRECTLY ABOVE the existing tracks and platforms -

This type of construction is used rather successfully by the Melbourne Metro (Victoria, Australia) regional rail
system to build new aerial structures and stations to eliminate level grade crossings in certain applications.

Another way that the Melbourne Metro eliminates level crossings and constructs new stations is to build new
below grade underpasses and stations - a town such as Farmingdale would not need this type of construction.
There are videos on Youtube that do show the before and after of various level crossing elimination projects.

An example of this type of below grade construction can be found in Haddonfield, New Jersey on PATCO...
When the PATCO High Speed Line was constructed in the late 1960s on the former PRSL route from Camden
the Borough of Haddonfield objected to aerial structures - and the answer was to depress the three tracks
(the third was a PRSL track that later became the route of the Atlantic City Line) below ground level with the construction of the new PATCO route and Haddonfield Station...

Today ANY grade crossing elimination project is going to have a hefty price tag - and will depend on just how
willing that a specific local area wants to eliminate problem grade crossings - and get around the NIMBY and
BANANA opposition that will likely arise from opponents to any changes - even if it is well known that a given
project can bring a better outcome upon completion - as the Main Line Third Track Project has (staying on the
original topic) overcoming decades of NIMBY opposition on the 10.1 mile routing to finally come to pass at the
end of 2022 optomistically at completion...MACTRAXX

Mactraxx wrote: Good question...A way that I noticed that an elimination project in a congested place such as Farmingdale
could be constructed is to build the new elevated structure DIRECTLY ABOVE the existing tracks and platforms -

I live in Farmingdale village and there is no way the 'village' would stand for an elevated structure over the existing tracks. They kinda like their middle America hometown vibe.

If they were able to do that at School St. in Westbury, they can probably do it just about anywhere. But if it's a cramped location, compromises will have to be made. And you might not like how it turns out.

Everyone: The 3TC update for June 2022 -
https://lirrexpansion.com/2022/06/01/up ... june-2022/

Mentioned as example is the opening of the renovated New Hyde Park Station building on the eastern
end of Platform A...The pedestrian underpass at the center of Westbury Station has been reopened...

There are currently NO weekend track outage programs scheduled for June 2022 - this should include
the weekend of July 2-3 along with Monday July 4th...

The Third Track Project is moving along into the three month prime June-July-August work season at
a good pace towards eventual completion in December...MACTRAXX

Track Work for Divide switch work was scheduled for weekends of June 4-5, 25-26, and July 9-10. It has been canceled.


I see some work listed for the future Park Interlocking. Hempstead Branch track work is listed for June 20-23, 27-20, July 5-7.


Some other track work I see:

Main Line: MLX-W Cherry Lane and Nassau 2 Switches
3 weekends July 9-10, 30-31, Aug 6-7.



Hempstead and Atlantic Branch -
Park/Beaver Interlocking Cutover, Switch Install, and concrete tie 3 weekends July 16-17, 23-24, Aug 13-14. Beaver Interlocking is east of Jamaica on the Atlantic Branch, west of Locust Manor.




Main Line - Block 1 Commissioning July 30 - Aug 14
Main Line - Block 2 Commissioning Aug 20 -28

Gamer4616; thanks for the update. Any idea why the Divide switch work for June was cancelled?

Also, what do they mean by Block 1 and Block 2 Commissioning?

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:25 am MA90: I disagree - ANY grade crossing CAN be eliminated provided there is agreement from the communities
on how to proceed on a given project - and most importantly that there is $$FUNDING$$ available...

With the mention of Bethpage and Farmingdale there would likely have to be aerial structures with new
station facilities constructed to eliminate the crossings in both towns...that would most likely encounter
oposition from the disruptions needed during the construction phase - and from NIMBYs and BANANAs.
(BANANA stands for "Build Absolutely Nothing Anyplace Near Anyone")...

The best example of a single crossing being eliminated is the Herricks Road crossing between Merillon
Avenue and Mineola - that took 16 years after the 1982 tragedy that resulted in 9 fatalities...

One of the most ambitious LIRR grade crossing eliminations was the Amityville-Copiague-Lindenhurst
project - with the three then-new elevated stations and long aerial structures that opened in 1973...
With NIMBYs, BANANAs and the areas served being concerned on how the construction would disrupt
travel through and around the three localities - would something like this ever get built today?
MACTRAXX

By the way my favorite elevation project along with Bellmore-Merrick, Massapequa Park. Some of these places simply do not have the room for elevated structures. Farmingdale and Bethpage are extremely cramped, all the Babylon Branch stations had space to lay shoo-fly tracks, tear up the original stations, and build the new elevated structures on top of where the former structure was. For Massapequa Park, it was convenient at the time because they were redoing Sunrise Highway at the same time. Although, let's keep the Main Line Project the subject. I do not like the fact it will be called Grand Central Madison, it will be called Grand Central Terminal in my opinion, and I'm eager and curious about the work at Divide Interlocking. The cancellation of trackwork etc.

MattAmity90, (with apologies for being off-topic) Sunrise Hwy. thru the Massapequa area was widened circa 1966, several years prior to the Massapequa Park elevation project.

Looking at photos from Edward:

-On the SE corner at Hicksville where the pedestal signal is located, they are widening the viaduct a bit, but I don't know why.
-Divide Interlocking in New Cassel is seeing ballast work being done for what will be the new T1 (the track is not connected yet.
-More and more track is being laid along the South side of the ROW along the stretch. In fact, they electrified the third track over Herricks Road to a certain distance in NASSAU 1.
-Westbury continues to have its two ADA pedestrian overpasses coming alive.
-Hicksville, Carle Place, to a degree Merillon Avenue, and New Hyde Park have their construction and rehabilitation completed.
-Mineola's new pedestrian overpass is starting to receive its shell, plus a ton of utility work.
-As far as power poles go, the only stretches of continuous wood poles are near Denton Avenue, the Meadowbrook Parkway, and at Grand Blvd. Some stations like New Hyde Park have old wood poles that need to be taken down. I'm not sure what is going to be done as far as steel poles go.

Everyone - This is the 3TC update for July 2022:
https://lirrexpansion.com/updated-commu ... july-2022/

Upcoming weekend trackwork outages during July and August mentioned are:
July 9-10; July 30-31; August 6-7: Main Line from Floral Park to Hicksville.
Huntington/Port Jefferson and Ronkonkoma trains originate/terminate at Hicksville.
Shuttle trains Hicksville-Bethpage-Babylon with enhanced Babylon Branch service.
Extra Hempstead Branch service...Oyster Bay-East Williston only on the OB Branch...
New Hyde Park, Merillon Avenue, Carle Place and Westbury Stations are closed...
NICE Bus honors LIRR tickets on N22, N24 and N48/49 routes as an alternate...

July 16-17 and 23-24; August 13-14: No Hempstead Branch service.
Ronkonkoma trains stop at Hollis, Queens Village and Floral Park.
Bellerose Station is closed - bus to and from Queens Village.
Stewart Manor, Nassau Boulevard, Garden City and Hempstead Stations - buses to and from Mineola.
Country Life Press Station is closed - no alternate bus - train service is available at Mineola.
These three weekends are for Floral Park area trackwork...

The Main Line Third Track Project keeps moving along in the Summer 2022 work season...MACTRAXX

Pineywoodsman is not going to like this.

Sorry if these are questions that have previously been answered - I only started looking at this long thread recently.
On the latest project update I noted six road crossings that have or will be replaced by undergrade bridges. Once this work is completed will there be ANY road crossings left between Queens and Divide?
I read an article that said there are 250 trains/weekday on the two tracks between Floral Park and Hicksville - does this sound about right?
Is the Port Jefferson the only branch that whose trains use the Main Line between Queens and Divide, or are there other branches that tie in and add to the traffic?
Is NY & Atlantic freight traffic heavier on this portion of the Main Line, or over the Montauk Branch?
Thanks
Andy

The 3rd track project (so that there are 3 or more tracks all the way west from Hicksville / Divide should finish in the upcoming months. As I understand it, not only are all at grade crossings on that eliminated, there are also some improvements on connecting branches, rebuilt stations, the new (useless?) Elmont Station, piles of new tracks, signals, switches and power substations, some replaced (and usually a bit higher) bridges, better pedestrian access. So along the way, no one waiting for gates, less pollution, faster (believe it or not) schedules, a lot more capacity, and supposedly better or should I say the beginnings of reverse commuting service.

Lots of trains on the lines west of Hicksville. Using them are Huntington - Port Jeff Branch, the partly diesel only Central Branch (electric far enough to handle Ronkonkoma trains), and if needed, diesels from North Shore heading South. For instance, if everything west of Divide is shut down, a diesel can go from PJ to Hicksville, then east and south to Babylon, then go west on the 'south shore line to Jamaica, etc. Freight traffic uses the Montauk branch where it can, and typically goes anywhere else as it needs to but mainly outside rush hour.

I'm no expert, but I look at this to see how it will effect me! The 3rd track project is finally not just underway but almost done after years of NIMBYISM, caused partly by poor planning and design. The 2nd Ronk track has been live for a while now. I've been waiting for ESA since 1996, expecting it to be done by 2006, LIRR says, I think, should have been done by 2009, might be open partially in 2022. LIRR / MTA has gone out of its way to make the draft schedules for GCT-LIRR (or Madison, since apparently Gov Hokum things it's only a service for people on Madison Avenue) as hard to compare to current reality as they can, and the more I hear, the more I wonder what will actually be working this year. It's also not clear what happens down deep under GCT in case of a power outage - there doesn't seem to be any sort of backup power other than for a few lights. They are finally dropping hints that they might soon be doing some sort of testing, but it's not, IMHO, clear.

Andy - Answering your questions as posted:
1-ALL of the crossings between Queens and Divide have been eliminated - For more information on the
Third Track Project this topic contains when and how changes were made on this 10.1 mile segment
between Floral Park and Hicksville - Work backwards from present until you find information you need...
2-250 trains looks to be correct - The current schedule is different than the one in effect prior to when
"The Problem" began in March 2020 - some trains cut from the schedule have not been brought back...
3-Huntington/Port Jefferson and Ronkonkoma trains are the two primary routes using the Main Line...
Oyster Bay trains use the Main Line to Mineola where the OB Branch begins...
Some Patchogue/Speonk/Montauk trains use the Main Line to B (east of Bethpage) and than operate
over the Central Branch to Babylon and the Montauk Branch eastward...
4-NYA freight activity is much busier on the Main Line than the Montauk Branch...
MACTRAXX