Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

I understand the transfer of operations to still be July 1st. As I write this (8Am) 1888, and 133 are on 18G heading to Oak Island. #133 looks like its heading for the Freehold side. Probably to aid in the shove back from Prestone. I wouldn't be surprised if #1888 is also for the Freehold side. There is probably a GP38 type ( 2005,2006,5303,5304) coming as well for the Southern side. My guess is that #133 and #1888 will either hold at Oak Island or Browns until 7/1 gets closer.

Darn. Was hoping to catch 18G with that engine!

End of an era?? More like potential start of an era as far as im concerned. At least a chance for carload freight to make a small comeback in NJ. CR made no bones about their dislike of running branch lines. And NS and CSX hate branchlines and carload freight. We are in the RR's being operated by lawyers and MBA's era. Its the worst. The business plan is not give good service...its get a monopoly and tell ppl its us or trucks. Abandoning trackage to stifle competition ought to be illegal.

The only real railroads left are the regionals and shortlines. Good luck to Kean and C&D.

@pdtrains End of an era in a different way than that. For people who have been trackside in this region for quite some time, Conrail will leave behind many good memories, and of course some bad ones. There’s been so many incidents and strange occurrences on the Southern Secondary and Freehold Industrial Track over the past 30 years.

One of these days I really should write down the stories I’ve heard from my friend over what’s gone on around here.

Conrail DID screw up this line by A) refusing to do more than once a week service sometime within the last 1-2 decades and B) completely ditching Woodmansie-Winslow instead of trying to somewhat preserve it.

I think the line will be in better hands under the DRR, especially if they are doing 2x a week service off the bat after they take over. Once the FIT and SOUS are reconnected, and if/when they finally get the Lakewood-Lakehurst connection done at some point, I can very much see this line getting daily action again - something that hasn't been seen since probably the 80s. And who knows, maybe Woodmansie-Winslow could come back again in the distant future if things go well...

Let's not forget that they are also getting the TRIT - them getting operating rights and what not on that alone shows that there is something that will be happening there sooner or later.

In the grand scheme of things this will just be a blip on the radar, but the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen has opposed the DRRR operating the CSAO Southern Secondary, and has stated so to the STB.
https://dcms-external.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... 304783.pdf
CR 7876, what is the ATDA position on this?

Well of course the Union is objecting. They will lose jobs.
I hate to see loss of Union jobs, but in a case like this where the Union company is running the RR into the ground and eventually the whole thing could be abandoned with the NS/CSX blessing, this is the better alternative. Union ppl working on the CSAO track can bump to positions on other parts of the railroad.

I also believe that the number of grade crossings maintained, includes a lot of OOS crossings on the TRIT, between lakewood and lakehurst, and on the OOS portion of the Freehold sec.

Their opposition is quite laughable, honestly.
1. What signals are there to maintain? I'm pretty sure there have been none on the SOUS or the FIT or the TRIT for decades now.
2. If they are trying to claim that they maintain the crossings, that is even more hilarious. I'm pretty sure the DOT handles that, not the private RR companies nor their unions; in either case, many, if not all, of the crossings on the FIT, SOUS, and TRIT are in pretty dismal shape, and obviously haven't been maintained in quite some time.

To me, this seems like the union is trying to prevent their company from losing a line that generates jobs and revenue for them, which would be understandable if all these lines weren't derelict. I hope the STB knows this as well and turns them down.

Actions like this are only used by anti-union folks as an example of how they are a hassle, which is not really a great attitude to develop towards them.

Honestly, and with all due respect, I dont think u understand this....

1. The highway crossing signals, on every RR ive seen so far, are maintained by the RR. . MaintaIning hwy signals includes testing them to be operative on a routine basis, and coming out to do repairs when ever a highway signal is reported as inoperative.

2. Actually none of that matters, tho. The Union has to take a stand and put in a letter objecting to the replacement of Union jobs with non union labor. They are not expecting it to have any affect on the transfer of the tracks in question to C&D operation. They may ask for some sort of job protection, altho I dont see any in this letter.
Its mostly just done as an official stance by the union. What are they going to do...say that they are fine with dues paying members being displaced or losing their jobs?

Maybe the union wants the freight traffic to go to nonunion trucking firms? The nonunion DRRR is a win for the unionized Class I carriers, who can grow business if DRRR succeeds with their new venture. If anything, unions should think about making themselves value creators and partners for employers, rather than the current perception that they are expensive cogs in the wheels. For instance, every small business needs help bundling HR related matters, which could be a natural strength for unions. Instead, the threat of overly restrictive work rules, operational inflexibility, and a history of demands for above-market wages in other industries are enough to dissuade most businesses from wanting unions.

RailsEast wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:47 pm In the grand scheme of things this will just be a blip on the radar, but the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen has opposed the DRRR operating the CSAO Southern Secondary, and has stated so to the STB.
https://dcms-external.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... 304783.pdf
CR 7876, what is the ATDA position on this?

At this time it appears our position is the same as SMART and BLET, silence. I don't want to speak against Brother Baldwin, his views are correct for his position and brotherhood. In the end it looks like, a BRS position might get abolished. I hope that's not the case. If I was SMART or BLET, I'd try to Organize the C&D system. But that's a different story for a different internet forum.

P.S, Chris - Don't think I've enjoyed what I've know was comin down the pike for the last few years. Knowing one side of your family is potentially going to get hurt to improve the other side of your family is the best way I can describe this. In the end I do think the entire family will be stronger.

Is DRRR/C&D not unionized? I was under the impression that the entire RR industry was unionized.

pdtrains wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:19 am 1. The highway crossing signals, on every RR ive seen so far, maintain the hwy crossing signals. MaintaIning hwy signals includes testing them to be operative on a routine basis, and coming out to do repairs when ever a highway signal is reported as inoperative.

That doesn't change the fact that half the crossings on the SOUS and FIT don't work properly, despite the objection letter saying "the aforementioned territory is maintained by highly-skilled workers who perform scheduled testing on
nearly 46 highway grade crossings and six signal locations."

pdtrains wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:19 am 2. Actually none of that matters, tho. The Union has to take a stand and put in a letter objecting to the replacement of Union jobs with non union labor. They are not expecting it to have any affect on the transfer of the tracks in question to C&D operation. They may ask for some sort of job protection, altho I dont see any in this letter.
Its mostly just done as an official stance by the union. What are they going to do...say that they are fine with dues paying members being displaced or losing their jobs?

Yeah, this letter doesn't seem to really have any real-clear objection with specific desires in it to protect the union members. It just seems like a standard opposition letter, and, as you said, will most likely have no effect on the transfer.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:21 am P.S, Chris - Don't think I've enjoyed what I've know was comin down the pike for the last few years. Knowing one side of your family is potentially going to get hurt to improve the other side of your family is the best way I can describe this. In the end I do think the entire family will be stronger.

From a neutral standpoint, if a unionized RR company has been neglecting an important business/industrial corridor for quite some time, and the only entity that tries to prevent the line from going away completely is non-union, then you gotta do what you gotta do. At the very least, there will be more RR-related jobs in Monmouth and Ocean counties due to DRRR maintaining the tracks and having more service.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:00 pm Is DRRR/C&D not unionized? I was under the impression that the entire RR industry was unionized.

No they are not. Most Class III aren't. Most Class II's are, All Class I's are.

From a neutral standpoint, if a unionized RR company has been neglecting an important business/industrial corridor for quite some time, and the only entity that tries to prevent the line from going away completely is non-union, then you gotta do what you gotta do. At the very least, there will be more RR-related jobs in Monmouth and Ocean counties due to DRRR maintaining the tracks and having more service.

I think I understand what you are saying here, but I just want to make sure that you realize the difference that the Maintainers have Zero say in the neglect. When things get to the point where the company won't pay to repair things properly, the unionized employee isn't to blame the company is. Clearly C&D is going to hire non-union contractors to do work that union employees currently do. But they have been since they took over the Washington Sec from the NS in 2019. This isn't something new, as I said months ago, this can happen with these type of transactions. I'm bias to the point of blaming the union employee for something that is outside his/her control.

I'm not blaming the union men and women for the horrible maintenance on the FIT, TRIT, and SOUS - at the end of the day, they are just following the work orders of CR, and if those don't entail work on the TRIT, SOUS, and/or FIT, then they don't work on it.

I just find it bizarre that they are opposing this - whether or not CR continues to operate these lines, there will for sure be little to no maintenance done to these lines, meaning none of them will work on the lines whether CR or DRRR is operating it. I could see this as the union trying to see if DRRR will do something where unionized CR employees partake in the upgrading/repair of the lines, but, I doubt they'll get anything, especially if only one BRS position is at stake.

What's the union for railroad engineers and conductors? Those are the union jobs on the SOUS and FIT that will 100% be replaced by non-union workers, but we haven't seen those unions say anything.

@JohnFromJersey That would be the Union Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen I think.

Many of them aren’t complaining because they don’t want to come down the Southern. Some of them have been complaining about the track conditions for at least 15 years! Same for the Freehold IT. There’s a reason they want to replace the bridge near Monmouth Battlefield. That thing moves while the train goes over it!

It does sound like they don’t want C&D down here because of the potential loss of union jobs, but they are right to be concerned about how C&D maintains crossings. Put nicely, it’s not one of their strong suits. Especially on the Washington Secondary. The crossings there malfunction all the time.